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Kava Preparation Boiling Kava.

D

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Tried it over the weekend.
Problem I had was I used the Wakacon, which had WAY MORE gooey-ness like I stated in a last post.
It kinda dried funny.
I learned 2 things with this one.
1)While drying in oven at LOW temp, dont use a glass container
2) Dont use wakacon

I am pretty sure that when I re-try this....it will work
Then its on:D
I had a big block a while back...here's what it looked like. It still tasted horrendous as you needed to melt it in water. I would prefer normal kava mix over it.

image.jpg
 
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D

Deleted User01

Steve973, I wimped out.:eek: I will try harder next time. I promise.
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
I've always used 120°F water when kneading, and it does quite the adequate job of extracting (for me) the optimal amount of lactones. I can imagine boiling can really pull out every last drop. I contacted Mr. Yee of Hawaiian Kava Centers and he even had a specific grind he was using in an espresso machine that he was making kava with. I'd bet high temps & high pressures would really bring out the resins. Most likely worst espresso shot ever, but also pretty effective.
 
D

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Nemo
That's looks awesome.
What is your method?
I didn't make it mate...it was given to me in Vila. I thought airport customs would freak but they didn't seen to care.

It put me on the floor a few times.
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I didn't make it mate...it was given to me in Vila. I thought airport customs would freak but they didn't seen to care.

It put me on the floor a few times.
Looks like you could hide it in empty Vegemite jars if they ever did have a problem ;)
How was the spectrum of effects with that stuff ? Was it missing something...or overly powerful in one aspect more than others...
 
D

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Looks like you could hide it in empty Vegemite jars if they ever did have a problem ;)
How was the spectrum of effects with that stuff ? Was it missing something...or overly powerful in one aspect more than others...
I was having a table spoon of it in 250mls hot water. Freakin lobotomised me.

See what will happen once you start drinking fresh ? 9 days & counting.

I honestly don't get what everyone else here gets re spectrum...never have. I just drink kava for fun & it better be strong or it's in the bin.
 

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
I didn't make it mate...it was given to me in Vila. I thought airport customs would freak but they didn't seen to care.

It put me on the floor a few times.
I wish I had friends like that, haha

I was having a table spoon of it in 250mls hot water. Freakin lobotomised me.

See what will happen once you start drinking fresh ? 9 days & counting.

I honestly don't get what everyone else here gets re spectrum...never have. I just drink kava for fun & it better be strong or it's in the bin.

I think shakas was just asking what the effects were as in sedative/hypnotic/euphoric, etc..etc


I got some local kava a few days ago and tried preparing it with three different methods: 1) cold water extraction; 2) boiling in a saucepan; 3) pouring some boiling water on kava powder

Boiling does make it more potent. However, despite my best efforts, the texture is just horrible. It is like a nasty gravy. I've tried adding lots of water and while it helps, it also kind of defeats the purpose of boiling as it makes the kava much weaker and one needs to drink way more liquid in order to get the effect.
My conclusion is that boiling kava is a good solution for "kava shots', i.e. when you have just a small amount that you want to drink pretty quickly. For larger amounts and longer sessions, I prefer the cold/warm water extraction with some lecithin.

The bad taste is worth the effects to me.
after a few shells; Im not thinking taste anyways, lol
Im thinking
"BZZZZZZ, this is gooOOd" o_O "and my eyes look like the smiley"
 
D

Deactivated Account

Honestly I feel none of what others here mention re sedative/hypnotic etc from kava. Klavatones are klavatones to me. It's a case of 'that's it' or 'mix another'.

To me it's like booze in that you get the same state of drunk if you consume equal amounts (vol/alcohol) of beer or rum. If you have a blood alcohol of 0.05 then it's the same to me if it came from 2 beers or 1 wine or 1/2 whiskey.
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I also spent a lot of time with the same motto...kava is kava...it's either weak or strong, that's the only difference.
But last year I dedicated a lot more time to trying out different strains and chemotypes. And I finally began to notice the differences. It isn't drastic, and, they're all very similar. Yet, some feel heavy on the body, can be kinda woozy and linger on with quick deep sleep at the end. On the other side, I've had some that are so light and clean. They're gentle on my stomach and dont affect my muscles much, put me in an almost excited happy frame of mind, while still feeling relaxing though. BUT, they wear off fairly fast and don't force me to sleep hard. Others fall somewhere in the middle...etc..
 
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Good post mate. I like it very strong so maybe that overpowers the subtleness of understanding differences.


Only thing I've noticed is i firmly believe I drank a kg of tuday over a few days a while back:dead: & pretty much dialled out for about a week after. It really made me crook with every precise symptom of Hepatotoxicity. You can never be sure however if I was correct in what I had then I clearly see the issues with it.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Yes Shakas, you hit it on the spot, there are differences but they can be subtle and sometimes they can be profound, to give you an idea, I harvested a plant years ago, it was a "Hanakapi'ai" and I separated the corm, the big roots and the small hair like roots, let me stop there and mention my experience with some Tylenol #4 after my hernia surgery I noticed a nice euphoria and worry free feeling, well now back to the 'Awa.
I noticed in that plant and the 3 different parts of the root and corm, the hair like roots gave me that T4 effect every time, the regular sized roots gave me a good effect but the T4 effect was not there, this was kind of a controlled experiment because I gave the 'Awa to 3 other people and told them nothing except to try it and tell me what they thought about each one and then we all reviewed each others review, we all thought the same about the hair like roots. The corm or stump of the plant was also good but a different effect from both the regular roots and the hair like roots.

Another time I took some Mahakea and separated the corm and the lateral roots and had them tested using HPLC, with that info I could change the chemotype of the 'Awa by adding different amounts of corm and root, you can do the same with 2 or 3 different kava's, you can change the chemotype and the effects you get but it is subtle in most ways unless you add some Isa (not a Noble kava) to some other Noble kava, then the effects could be more pronounced.
I like the different effects that each Hawaiian kava has, as well as any other kava, I love kava. :D
Aloha.

Chris
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
Did you happen to get the Hanakapi'ai hair-roots tested to see what the Chemotype was on those alone ?
 

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
Somebody on another forum mentioned smoking kava and getting an effect, i seriously doubt heat destroys them like we're led to believe.

Just a note, the guy did say that inhaling the kava smoke was quite horrible and did not recommend it.
 

infraredz

BULA!
You're right, I don't know who started that rumor about heat "destroying the kavalactones" but it's false. The amount of heat that one would need to destroy the kavalactones would be far higher than anyone would see from boiling water or any normal situation.

From an older thread I posted some info on that for anyone that hasn't seen it....

I found this quote on the old forum:
"About three years ago, a test (using HPLC) was done on boiling the kava beverage (~212F). Loss after a few minutes at that temperature was considered insignificant. Less than 5% of the kavalactones were lost."
[The link is broken, but the quote was from the owner of Hawaiiankava.com]

And:
"This one's more about special lab equipment based extraction so I can't be sure it applies here, but the graph on page 190 (and following pages) shows that, in general, the percentage of extraction increases as temperature increases. Yangonin extraction is essentially 0% until you reach boiling point"
[link seems broken to me, but you could try it: http://144.206.159.178/ft/553/42507/769267.pdf]

And:
"Various authors have suggested that the two compounds isolated by Cuzent and Gobley, kavahine and methysticin, are the same and correspond to methysticin as it is known today (see figure 3.1). However, the percentage analysis of carbon (C), hydrogen (H), and oxygen (0) given by Cuzent (1861a) for kavahine 5.85% C, 5.64% H, and 28.51% 0) is closer to the composition of didromethysticin (65.21 % C, 5.84% H, 28.95 % 0) than to that of methysticin 5.69% C, 5.15% H, 29.17% 0, calculated in Lebot and Cabalion 1986). The melting point of kavahine, 120-130 C, is also nearer to that of dihyromethysticin (116-118 °C, Winzheimer 1908; 117-118 °C, Borsche and Bodenstein 1929; 118 °C, Joessang and Molho 1970) than to that of methysticin 132-135 °C, Sauer and Haensel 1967; 136-137 °C, Rasmussen et al. 1979; 139-140 °C, Borsche and Peitzsch 1929a; see also Duve 1981). The differences bserved between these figures would be easy to explain if Cuzent had actually obtained and analyzed pure syncrystals, but the 10 °C variation in the melting point of his kavahine indicates that the substance he analyzed was contaminated. Our best guess is that Cuzent's kavahine was a mixture of dihydromethysticin and methysticin."
[http://www.aldbot.com/New_Folder-1/ch3lebot.htm]

And (more regarding chemical structure and implications for storage):
"According to Duve and Prasad (1983), there are trends in the deterioration of the major active constituents in both dry powdered root and basal stems. Storage of the samples in screw-capped glass bottles at room temperature resulted in 26, 33 and 55% degradation of the major constituents in the roots and 24, 50 and 48% degradation in basal stems after 22, 36 and 39 months of storage, respectively. Moisture and
temperature are probably the major environmental factors affecting the deterioration of dry powdered plant material. Stability of the active constituents appeared to be dependent on the chemical structure, with dihydrokavain being the least stable and methysticin the most stable (Duve and Prasad, 1983). In addition, stability improves with increasing melting point and the degree of unsaturation. These findings suggest that more polar substances are likely to be stable at room temperature. In contrast, in non-polar molecules like dihydrokavain, the pyrone ring tends to open up to form more polar acidic components which would be readily stabilized by moisture from the storage environment. The identity of the degradation products have not been established but formation of a characteristic off-odor from the samples has been described (Duve and Prasad, 1983), which probably reflects formation of the corresponding acids from the active constituents. Further studies are, however, needed before firm recommendations can be made on storage conditions for powdered kava."
 

Dan

Kava Enthusiast
I found this quote on the old forum:
"About three years ago, a test (using HPLC) was done on boiling the kava beverage (~212F). Loss after a few minutes at that temperature was considered insignificant. Less than 5% of the kavalactones were lost."
[The link is broken, but the quote was from the owner of Hawaiiankava.com]
I remember this study. It's the main reason I started boiling my brew.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
@ Shakas, the chemotype was not that different, the regular roots were 463251, the corm or stump was 462531 and the hair roots were 436215
There are some Hawaiian friend of mine and they have mixed different 'Awa and portions of the plant to get a great effect for a long time, I have tried it and if you have an accurate HPLC with the chemotype then you can have some fun experimenting. :D
If you throw in a spoon full of Isa it will totally change the chemotype, most certainly stronger and not necessarily in a good way, some like Isa and some do not, I will only use it for medicine, like if my back goes out or something like that and even then I mix it with Hawaiian root.

@yepimonfire, I know a guy that sells the kava leaves over here for smoking, I do not think it is a good idea, that part of the plant is not really meant to be used and it does not give you the kava effect. Aloha to all.

Chris
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Hi,
I ran across the following abstract about using Subcritical water to extract the lactones from Kava powder. If I understand properly, subcritical water is basically hot water under pressure. It would be an interesting experiment to cook some Kava powder in a pressure cooker with water in it for about 20-30 minutes and see how it turns out.
Regards
Bob


ABSTRACT Subcritical water extraction of lactones from a kava (Piper metlhysticum) root was compared to a Soxhlet extraction with water, to boiling in water, and to a sonication in acetone. For ground kava (250-500 microm), 2 h of subcritical water extraction were required for a complete extraction at 100 degrees C, while at 175 degrees C, 20 min were sufficient. For a complete extraction of the unground (shredded) kava, the time of extraction was extended to 40 min at 175 degrees C. Boiling for 2 h and extraction with Soxhlet apparatus for 6 h, both of which employed water at atmospheric pressure, produced yields 40-60% lower than those obtained with subcritical water. With unground kava, 40 min of subcritical water extraction yielded essentially the same recoveries of lactones as 18 h of sonication with acetone, methylene chloride, or methanol.
 

infraredz

BULA!
A pressure cooker wouldn't get anywhere close to supercritical unfortunately. Supercritical extractions can be done at home but require a lot more than a pressure cooker

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
A pressure cooker wouldn't get anywhere close to supercritical unfortunately. Supercritical extractions can be done at home but require a lot more than a pressure cooker
Hi,

Don't know if you have a typo or not, but the abstract states "subcritical" not supercritical.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheated_water:

Superheated water
is liquid water under pressure at temperatures between the usual boiling point, 100 °C (212 °F) and the critical temperature, 374 °C (705 °F). It is also known as "subcritical water" or "pressurized hot water."

[EDIT]

It still would be cool trying a pressure cooker, don't you think?
 
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