Kava Physiology Two-day, or not two-day, that is the question.
- Thread starter Andrew Procyk
- Start date
Prince Philip
Duke of Edinborogu
Well, not actually selling anything, I'm not sure I'm allowed to reply, but...
http://www.thefix.com/content/worlds-most-dangerous-drug?page=all
I look at it somewhat the same way I look at cervical arterial dissection. Robin Cook, who I fear will ever be Brad Meltzer to Michael Crichton's Dan Brown, made this a topic in one of his novels. My chiropractor made me sign new paperwork stating that I was aware of the risks. To give his patients a sense of perspective, he compared to the number of deaths caused by NSAIDs, and the paperwork went on a fairly long tirade about Tylenol.
Rather than repeat the Tylenol tirade (the above link isn't about acetaminophen, by the way), the question is one of appropriate use. I won't say responsible use. I think that's way too cliche. But, we should be asking about the appropriateness of different strains of kava.
Nobel kavas are appropriate for every day drinking. What are Tudei kavas appropriate for?
90% of the time, I drink Nobel kavas. In fact, 40% of the time it's crown-only. But, in situations where others might reach for an Ativan or Klonopin, I reach for Solomon Island kava. I find this to be appropriate, and it allows me to face situations that would otherwise be too daunting to face without it.
Now, what about other times? Is Tudei appropriate for those with Lynch Syndrome mutations as a chemopreventative? Is Tudei a better anti-craving agent than Nobel kava? Is Tudei appropriate for one's birthday, or to celebrate my birthday (June 10th... which in 2014 will be an important occasion for Themalite-Philipian syncretists)? Is Tudei appropriate for my visit with the Pope in April? (Actually, I was thinking Fijian for my Papal visit. I want something very friendly after the whole Henry VIII thing, just in case there are any hurt feelings on either side).
http://www.thefix.com/content/worlds-most-dangerous-drug?page=all
I look at it somewhat the same way I look at cervical arterial dissection. Robin Cook, who I fear will ever be Brad Meltzer to Michael Crichton's Dan Brown, made this a topic in one of his novels. My chiropractor made me sign new paperwork stating that I was aware of the risks. To give his patients a sense of perspective, he compared to the number of deaths caused by NSAIDs, and the paperwork went on a fairly long tirade about Tylenol.
Rather than repeat the Tylenol tirade (the above link isn't about acetaminophen, by the way), the question is one of appropriate use. I won't say responsible use. I think that's way too cliche. But, we should be asking about the appropriateness of different strains of kava.
Nobel kavas are appropriate for every day drinking. What are Tudei kavas appropriate for?
90% of the time, I drink Nobel kavas. In fact, 40% of the time it's crown-only. But, in situations where others might reach for an Ativan or Klonopin, I reach for Solomon Island kava. I find this to be appropriate, and it allows me to face situations that would otherwise be too daunting to face without it.
Now, what about other times? Is Tudei appropriate for those with Lynch Syndrome mutations as a chemopreventative? Is Tudei a better anti-craving agent than Nobel kava? Is Tudei appropriate for one's birthday, or to celebrate my birthday (June 10th... which in 2014 will be an important occasion for Themalite-Philipian syncretists)? Is Tudei appropriate for my visit with the Pope in April? (Actually, I was thinking Fijian for my Papal visit. I want something very friendly after the whole Henry VIII thing, just in case there are any hurt feelings on either side).
D
Deactivated Account
Drank a kg of it over few days …never again. Its fine for a 1 day spin but hell it had some rough effects over 4-5 days.
Hi Andrew, I am glad to see there is another kava vendor/expert that has the same views that I do when it comes to growing, processing and selling kava.
I was not in Fiji for the symposium but the Doctor from the university of Minnesota came here to the Big Island to give a report on his research and what went on at the Fiji conference, I recorded it and I will be posting the video soon. I just could not make it to Fiji.
I only grow noble varieties and I do not sell Isa or any other tuday kava. I pride myself on quality of product and production, I know a lot about kava being the president of the Hawaii Awa Council, I even brought Dr. Lebot over a few times to give talks at our symposiums. I am glad that you are doing what your doing to make sure people can get a good kava. That is the reason I started selling kava to the world, so I can supply top quality kava all around.
Let me know if you ever get to the Big Island, I would very much like it if you stopped by to see my operation.
I also came up with the instant kava many years ago, I wanted to come up with a way to make kava from the fresh undried root and what I came up with was what is now known as instant kava.
Keep up the good work, aloha. your not the only one that wants to play it safe, to me the safest way is the way it has been done for thousands of years.
Chris
I was not in Fiji for the symposium but the Doctor from the university of Minnesota came here to the Big Island to give a report on his research and what went on at the Fiji conference, I recorded it and I will be posting the video soon. I just could not make it to Fiji.
I only grow noble varieties and I do not sell Isa or any other tuday kava. I pride myself on quality of product and production, I know a lot about kava being the president of the Hawaii Awa Council, I even brought Dr. Lebot over a few times to give talks at our symposiums. I am glad that you are doing what your doing to make sure people can get a good kava. That is the reason I started selling kava to the world, so I can supply top quality kava all around.
Let me know if you ever get to the Big Island, I would very much like it if you stopped by to see my operation.
I also came up with the instant kava many years ago, I wanted to come up with a way to make kava from the fresh undried root and what I came up with was what is now known as instant kava.
Keep up the good work, aloha. your not the only one that wants to play it safe, to me the safest way is the way it has been done for thousands of years.
Chris
Lebot, you mean this fellow I was drinking with again?
Yes, the colorimetric test is cheap and accurate. The only question is what the molecules are that are causing the color differences, and where the "line" is between yellow/gold, and orange/amber. This might very well be my PhD chem work, as I am planning an exit strategy from kava, in case the market is destroyed by unscrupulous vendors. It is literally a race for me and Schmidt to file the CODEX vs. someone falling ill and vindicating the EU's actions. The next court case related is in May.
As per some kavas, 110% guarantee that he said Isa is not to be consumed, and neither is Koniak - which is either an Isa, or comes from the same basin in PNG.
There was just a paper submitted to a botanical journal by one of his students that details 3 distinct groups of kava. Nobles (or whatever you want to argue they are called) the two-day, and yet another. They are genetically different plants, we can only hope for publication. We already KNOW Isa is different from the 1999 paper by Lebot, et.al, "Morphological, Phytochemical, and Genetic variation in Hawaiian Cultivars of 'Awa" Isa is not native Hawaiian of course, but it is there now in huge numbers. Vincent takes the blame, as he brought it there for genetic study, and it escaped the greenhouse.
I will soon post a video on the subject, but that will have to wait until I am back in the states. Drink safely - drink noble! (Or whatever you want to argue that it is called)
Cheers,
AP
Yes, the colorimetric test is cheap and accurate. The only question is what the molecules are that are causing the color differences, and where the "line" is between yellow/gold, and orange/amber. This might very well be my PhD chem work, as I am planning an exit strategy from kava, in case the market is destroyed by unscrupulous vendors. It is literally a race for me and Schmidt to file the CODEX vs. someone falling ill and vindicating the EU's actions. The next court case related is in May.
As per some kavas, 110% guarantee that he said Isa is not to be consumed, and neither is Koniak - which is either an Isa, or comes from the same basin in PNG.
There was just a paper submitted to a botanical journal by one of his students that details 3 distinct groups of kava. Nobles (or whatever you want to argue they are called) the two-day, and yet another. They are genetically different plants, we can only hope for publication. We already KNOW Isa is different from the 1999 paper by Lebot, et.al, "Morphological, Phytochemical, and Genetic variation in Hawaiian Cultivars of 'Awa" Isa is not native Hawaiian of course, but it is there now in huge numbers. Vincent takes the blame, as he brought it there for genetic study, and it escaped the greenhouse.
I will soon post a video on the subject, but that will have to wait until I am back in the states. Drink safely - drink noble! (Or whatever you want to argue that it is called)
Cheers,
AP
@ Vorticity, I think it all depends on the person, it could be one time or it could be more, it could also be different if you combine kava with other things that might have a hepatoxicity, like alcohol, just an example. It does depend a lot on the individual person. That is why Andrew and me and Dr. Lebot and a few others say to stick to the noble varieties or in other words make sure that the #4 "Kavain" is in the # 1 spot of the chemotype, there is no tuday variety that has this kind of chemotype.
@ Andrew, yes the one and the same Dr. Lebot. I have not seen him in a long time. I was here when Dr. Lebot brought the Isa and that is how I got it. I only like it for a ornamental plant. I do not harvest it, I only have a few growing. I have a few other plants from the south Pacific area but they are good kava as shown by the chemotype.
I like your saying---"Drink safely - drink noble!" That is great! Aloha.
Chris
@ Andrew, yes the one and the same Dr. Lebot. I have not seen him in a long time. I was here when Dr. Lebot brought the Isa and that is how I got it. I only like it for a ornamental plant. I do not harvest it, I only have a few growing. I have a few other plants from the south Pacific area but they are good kava as shown by the chemotype.
I like your saying---"Drink safely - drink noble!" That is great! Aloha.
Chris
infraredz
BULA!
Just to clarify for those who haven't been around the first few times this discussion came about, it's due to the presence of FKB that there is reason for concern. Noble kavas don't necessarily have kavain as the most prevalent lactone although it does appear that the majority of noble kava does have kavain in the greatest quantity.
The mechanism behind the supernatant color isn't understood but from the sound of it, there hasn't been a noble kava giving a red/orange supernatant and all wichmannii and tudei will tincture a darker color. I've got my own theory behind it but it's too convoluted to type out and would just be geeking out anyways.
Maybe @Andrew Procyk and I can talk about it over some kava since he's in LA
The mechanism behind the supernatant color isn't understood but from the sound of it, there hasn't been a noble kava giving a red/orange supernatant and all wichmannii and tudei will tincture a darker color. I've got my own theory behind it but it's too convoluted to type out and would just be geeking out anyways.
Maybe @Andrew Procyk and I can talk about it over some kava since he's in LA
D
Deleted User01
Yes, and since he started this thread ....
So THAT is where Dr. Xing was headed afterward. His recent work on FKB toxicity levels and anti-tumerogenic properties of methysticin are mind blowing. We should talk soon. Hope all is well out there in the middle of the lake!
D
Deleted User01
This is a very good questions that goes begging for an answer. Anyone?
D
Deleted User01
At least they would die happy ...
Prince Philip said: ↑
Nobel kavas are appropriate for every day drinking. What are Tudei kavas appropriate for?
This is a very good questions that goes begging for an answer. Anyone?
Deleted User01
Stay tuned, I am writing a article on what the tuday kava is good for, from a pacific Islanders point of view and a historical point of view. I should be done in a day or so. Aloha.
Chris
Nobel kavas are appropriate for every day drinking. What are Tudei kavas appropriate for?
This is a very good questions that goes begging for an answer. Anyone?
Deleted User01
Stay tuned, I am writing a article on what the tuday kava is good for, from a pacific Islanders point of view and a historical point of view. I should be done in a day or so. Aloha.
Chris
D
Deleted User01
You give a few cuttings to your fellow scientists for research and study and eventual a cutting ends up in the hands of a bad apple. End of Story. Lebot never thought that would happen but now he understands human nature. He regrets it to this day so don't rub it in.
D
Deleted User01
Well, I guess it's kinda of a sad story. The whole intent was to have some Tudie to study. If I were a Kava guy, I would want to deconstruct it and see what makes it so different and check for toxic substances, etc. There are honest "Kava Collectors" in Hawaii and they collect every Kava they can get their hands on including Tudie. They don't drink it. But they have to constantly monitor the 'Awa Patch' to watch for thieves. Here in Texas, its horse thieves and cattle rustlers. In Hawaii, its 'Awa Thieves and Kava Rustlers. It's a crazy world ....
At the time Tudei was brought to Hawai'i there was much less health research being done on it compared to the scrutiny that it attracted Post-ban. So I doubt they had much reason to guard it like small pox. I doubt it 'escaped' so much as, it was shared...in combination with what Deleted User01 mentioned about The Kava Patch Kids thieving crops in the night...to get their own fast growing strong 'awa that they heard about. 