Another disturbing story out of South Florida

[Andrew Procyk]

Just look at what is going on in this heinous establishment. They are selling the cousin of K@, not telling people exactly what is in their drinks "Red Eye," etc.) and actually selling merchandise that ENCOURAGES people to get addicted. How dare they. We must ban the killer bean. It is a drug people cannot seem to shake even after they have cast off other addictions, so it must be the most sinister of all.

 

[The Kap'n]

Jeeze. Ignorant reporters. Guess what, now kava and K@ are the same thing. Or at least thousands of people now believe this. This is a blow to kava, and K@ for that matter, but I stay away from K@ because I had a questionably intense love affair with opioids earlier in life I'd rather not even give the chance of repeating. Actually I wonder sometimes if I had found K@ first I may not have traveled down that road to begin with.

I wish I had enough money to put up a billboard because this makes me want to do it.

 

[infraredz]

I am not disputing the absolute need to label ingredients - and warned the very subject of the stories years before this happened... but, I would not call K@ an "opioid" either. The primary actives in K@ have crossover-effects to various opioid receptors, but a ceiling on euphoria and respiratory depression. Additionally, they first have a bunch of andragenic activity before tooling with painkilling receptors. Find me one opioid or opioid peptide known that is similar to that.

Just as a point of information, there are opioid peptides present in K@ (Mitragynine, Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, 7-Hydroxymitragynine) that do not posses any Adrenergic properties. I know that K@'s pharmacological profile is dose-dependent and opioid-like effects are only present in high doses (which might be the reason for all these "extracts").

That being said, there are other alkaloids without affinity on opioid receptors which include Raubasine, Corynanthine and Rhynchophylline. Interestingly, Rhynchophylline is a noncompetitive NMDA antagonist which is probably one of the many possible reasons for the lack of the development of serious tolerance and therefore, withdrawal symptoms with K@. Under my "How it Works" thread there are many links showing the affect NMDA has on craving, tolerance, dependence, etc. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433591]

Like I've said before, I have never consumed K@ and won't pass any judgement on it because it is obviously a safer alternative to those in pain (lack of serious side-effects such as hypoventilation which is what causes opioid-related deaths). The nerd in me just needed to clarify that though.

We are all in this together, especially when K@ starts getting linked to Kava and vice versa. But anyways, back to kava and how we should, as a community, respond to not only the news reports like this, but also the kava bars. After all, we are a kava forum. As much as I appreciate those here who value K@, I think we need to stay focused on the real issue here which is the future and public perception of kava.

 

[infraredz]

I also found this link: http://newswire.xbiz.com/view.php?id=169369
"The company’s new Super Kratomite e-cigarette features Kava extract, which according to Adventure’s rep, was recently involved in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study showing that Kava relieves anxiety symptoms. “Combined with the pure K@ extract from the proprietary blend in the original Kratomite, Kava makes Super Kratomite an incredible option to help relieve stress, pain and anxiety,” Adventure’s Adam Hasner said."

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle the recent issue regarding kava? What sort of proactive actions can we take? Is there any advantage in contacting kava bars that serve K@ (without explicitly labeling it as such)?

I have a list of kava bars that serve K@ that was compiled by someone on another forum 2 years ago (so it might not be current, but we do know that Purple Lotus is still doing it).

If you want it send me a message.

 

[infraredz]

Well, it looks like the Palm Beach Post writer isn't too concerned with her errors.

I wrote:
"Please take the time to amend your article to show that kava and K@ are in no way related. The two plants are not even in the same genus, nor family, let alone ORDER. That's 3 down in the biological taxonomic list and would be akin to putting humans in the same category as elephants, for example.

Also, they produce very different effects and a cursory internet search will confirm this for you.

Thank you,
[redacted]"

and here is her response:
"OK. I'm not writing a biology textbook so the genus of the two plants is not really my concern. (If I was talking about mammals, I would put humans in the same category as elephants and I believe that might be an apt comparison here.)

Further, an Internet search (particularly the DEA drug watch list) doesn't convince me that the produce "very" different effects. I will acknowledge that one is thought to be addictive yet the other only causes liver damage. Even some of the side effects are the same.

I'm mulling a correction or a clarification. I'll be in touch.

Thanks for the note.

-Jane "

 

[kavadude]

I got mine too, said more or less the same thing. What a disturbing attitude. It is certainly not a reporters job to know everything there is to know about biology or pharmacology. It is their job to correctly report factual information.

 

[kavadude]

I love that the purple lotus kava bar advertises that they have no age policy. Kids too hyperactive? Dope them up on K@!

Fucking wonderful.

 

[kavadude]

Also, let's remember to be totally civil when writing to these folks and not even take a hostile tone. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar and all that. And I say this as a person with a vocabulary mostly limited to four letter words.

 

[infraredz]

I love that the purple lotus kava bar advertises that they have no age policy. Kids too hyperactive? Dope them up on K@!

Fucking wonderful.

Yes, I was astounded by that too.

 

[yiki]

There is no point in being upset about this. Don't forget that a lot of these "journalists" hav agendas of their own which are, in many cases, against alternative medicine (they'd falsely call it "anti-drug"). There is a lot of corruption at play and especially medium sized outlets are suspectible to that. Especially with kava, the amount of corruption is high, it seems. The EU ban of kava is not explainable otherwise. My guess would be that the Benzo lobby is behind it, but i don't want to spread libel. Its just a speculation.

 

[Vekta]

Well...we have to be a little upset at least. We can't let our voices go unheard. Anything we can do to right these misleading statements is a good thing(within reason). We have the facts and a lot of really smart people in the kava community to work with and make it right. Besides people like Andrew and Dr. Lebot there is all of us to. This is one of those things that's most likely not going to end long after many of us are gone. If all of us can do just a little something and support the big boys and girls (and each other) we have a much better chance of stopping this kind of thing before it runs rampant all over everywhere.

 

[yiki]

Well...we have to be a little upset at least. We can't let our voices go unheard.

You can take action without being upset. Dont get me wrong, this article does not make me feel good, but i found that these negative emotions often cloud my judgement and kee me from being roductive.

 

[Vekta]

You can take action without being upset. Dont get me wrong, this article does not make me feel good, but i found that these negative emotions often cloud my judgement and kee me from being roductive.

Being upset can be a healthy and constructive emotion. It's not always destructive.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar03/whenanger.aspx