Chronic urticaria (hives) and other allergy-like symptoms from kava combined with stress

[nhoeg]

Hello all

Some time ago I posted this thread about some allergy-like symptoms that happened to me chronically after an intense period with stress and daily kava drinking.
Unfortunately the symptoms never went away.

Long story short: I have always had some symptoms the day after drinking kava - a red face and intense vasodilation when I was exercising. I thought it was OK, since it all went away if I just waited a few days. This was the happy days untill I had many hard exams and worries which made me consume a lot of kava. Suddenly, these symptoms godt "stuck" in my body, and I now everyday deal with these symptoms.

- red face (especially cheeks)
- red and dry eyes
- vasodilation

The symptoms goes crazy when I exercise - my face looks like a tomato after a quick run. And my eyes looks like a drug-addict after exercise! But I can live with it in my daily life - however it sill annoys me.

I have been to a dermatologist and I have taken every test possible. I don't have any liver issues or anything - my diagnosis for the red skin is "urticaria" which is hives. He says that chronic hives are stress-related and are hard to cure. I also have allergies for many foods, which probably has something to do with it.

This still annoys me. I do not drink kava anymore (I have done it maybe 3-4 times the last year), since it just makes it worse. There is definitly something in kava that my body can't handle. The sad thing though is that the symptoms are somehow stuck in my body!

I know it is stress related, and I am fully aware of this. I'm taking ST. johns wort to control the bad and stressful feelings, however it is not helping with my red face and red eyes. Life happens and stress also happens.

@violet was friendly enough to send me a lot of info about histamine intolerance which is a possible explanation of all this. However I think the elimination-diet is too rough for me to keep that strict. Eating and drinking is a social thing for me. It is very hard just to eat vegetables and water for 3 months, especially when you live in a dorm with only other students like my self, where eating is the no.1 social thing to do.

I'm pretty lost on what to do. Maybe I should go for the strict diet (trust me I have said this to my self many times).
Really, I think it all comes down to stress. And that is one hard f*cker to completely eliminate!

I still think about how the hell this has happened. Im positive that kava has something to do with it, since these symptoms used to happen after drinking kava. Is it perhaps possible, that I have been drinking too much kava combined with stress, that my nervous system has blocked the histamine-inhibitors forever? I don't know....

Sorry all for seeming like a total wuss here when I'm constantly complaining about these symptoms, but believe me, I am annoyed by this shit. My dermatologist cannot come with a logical explanation on the connection to kava. Maybe you guys know something?

 

[24601]

Don't know if I know anything helpful, but even before kava I had chronic urticaria. I couldn't get a doctor to agree, but to me it seemed like cholinergic urticaria - every time I get warm, be it through exercise, warm clothes, bed, weather, I break out in pinpoint hives mostly on my trunk and my arms. It started randomly a few years ago and seems to slowly be getting better - I get uncomfortably itchy now, but the hives don't usually pop up. I could never get a picture of the hives for the allergist so he just referred me to a dermatologist, and all she said was that I had super sensitive skin.

I believe it's stress in my case as well. I can't afford to try an elimination diet.

Again, sorry that I have no helpful solutions, but here's a "me too" and maybe we can keep each other updated if we find any solutions?

In my case, it doesn't seem to be linked to kava at all, unless the red sore itchy eyes are related.

 

[Capitán Bastos]

1) I don't think you're whining at all. The way you describe your condition I would say that has to be annoying as hell. How do you sleep?
2) I had some reactions in the past, my eyes tend to dry out after a week or so with kava and I end up in the evil circle of irritated eyes - itching in my sleep - more irritation and eventually acquiring an infection that goes away with prescription eye ointment only. This sucks and I'd rather not drink kava at that point to be honest, so I relate.
3) kava candy is my go to. I find it does wonders for stressful periods and that I get no side effects apart from increase in both frequency and speed in regards to bowel movements when I go through a sleeve or more. It has just enough recreational value as well.
4) When I first ordered kava, Adil was still in business and I was in a place in life where I probably needed the kava more. (No pun intended) it took a few months of regular kava drinking before I really experienced any negative side effects from kava, but when I did, oh boy. Adil's extracts never gave me any trouble though.
5) I can't respond without giving notice to social life > health problems. If they really care about you, people will spend time with you without you having to eat or drink what they do for a period of time. If I were you, I would seriously do what it takes.

 

[Capitán Bastos]

I can't afford to try an elimination diet.

Can you elaborate on this please?

 

[Capitán Bastos]

@nhoeg I hope this all works out for you and wish you good health. Clumsy of me not to start my first post here with that. Sorry.

 

[24601]

Can you elaborate on this please?

Well, I don't know for sure since I've never tried, but on a low income, it seems like gluten free, etc, are deemed specialty items and cost more than regular groceries.

 

[KrunkMunster]

I had a similar issue with kava, but I was getting more of the classic hives -- itching, etc.
My symptoms have nearly gone by keeping my skin good and moisturized. If I feel the itching coming on, take a benadryl. Usually just one knocks out my symptoms and doesn't make me drowsy.

 

[Capitán Bastos]

Well, I don't know for sure since I've never tried, but on a low income, it seems like gluten free, etc, are deemed specialty items and cost more than regular groceries.

I understand, I asked because I might've come across as harsh if I hadn't. I'm not out to judge you or anyone else for that matter.

Well, not eating gluten does not mean eating gluten free products.
Not eating sugar does not mean eating sugar free products.
Staying away from dairy does not mean you have to drink soy milk.

I had a friend who lived on frozen pizzas because it was "cheap" and he "couldn't afford" healthy food. Not saying you don't eat healthy, but a lot of people believe it's cheaper to by processed food and that meat, fish and vegetables are too expensive.

I have no idea of what you're supposed to eat on an elimination diet, my friend wanted to check if he was lactose intolerant. His doctor told him, instead of two weeks without and then drinking milk again, to chug a whole carton. He did and found out pretty fast that he was lactose intolerant.

What I do know, is that eating on a budget back when I was in college, was an eye opener in terms of what food actually costs. I've been lazy this past year, because I could afford it but I'll give you a couple of examples (I'm not patronizing, just trying to help)

Chicken.

Buying a whole chicken gives you food for several days.
Chicken broth, soup, salads or sandwiches etc...
Easily four meals for two people, at least.

Rice. Buy big or go home. I actually didn't know how to cook rice until my early twenties.
When I did, it was a game changer, buying sacks of rice also gives you access to higher quality rice.
Now that rice cookers are somewhat affordable, there's that.

Vegetables, ovenroasted root vegetables are delicious, healthy and can for the most part be eaten raw as snacks.

Offal, liver, kidneys, hearts, lungs and even brains are so underrated and very cheap.

 

[violet]

If it's something related to histamine intolerance it probably won't clear up much without removing or reducing histamine triggering foods and drinks from the diet. There's a lot of stuff that either contains histamine or histamine releasers or both, so eating around it isn't as much as expensive as it is a little difficult due to planning that must sometimes take place.

A lot of incredibly healthy, seemingly innocuous foods can cause this issue. Salicylates and oxalates often cause similar symptoms and sensitivity to either/both of these can commonly accompany histamine issues. A total elimination for long enough to get rid of symptoms can be a very limited diet indeed. This can be made difficult if you have to depend on a cafeteria for food.

I think kava can easily exacerbate something like this, but it probably would have happened even without kava. Slowing down the liver with anything, kava, alcohol, the wrong food, medicine, hormone imbalances, etc., can make histamine issues linger on. After that there is usually an underlying imbalance causing the predisposition to histamine issues that needs to be addressed in order to manage/clear the symptoms.

All alcoholic beverages are really bad for causing histamine issues, but some are worse than others. While modern/western medicine will find nothing wrong with the liver, TCM might say the liver, spleen, or other organs are congested, since there is stagnation occurring in the body.

@nhoeg I hope you are able to get relief from the burden of your pressures and get to a position where you are able to feel better. It's not easy when your focus has to be given to your studies and the other distractions of life.

 

[violet]

Good write up I just came across explaining histamine intolerance:

http://drjockers.com/suffering-histamine-intolerance/

Makes me wonder if fresh consumed kava would have the same effects in sensitive individuals? Drying plant matter apparently can significantly affect the histamine containing/releasing properties just as it does in meats.

 

[Groggy]

Good write up I just came across explaining histamine intolerance:

http://drjockers.com/suffering-histamine-intolerance/

Makes me wonder if fresh consumed kava would have the same effects in sensitive individuals? Drying plant matter apparently can significantly affect the histamine containing/releasing properties just as it does in meats.

If that were a viable option I would jump all over it, I would love to have fresh kava but I am assuming it isn't something that it is readily available as of yet.

 

[HeadHodge]

@nhoeg, did you ever post the results of your allergy panel test results? I'm interested in the results but haven't seen them.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

@shakas has Pointed that out before @violet it most certainly seems as though drying kava greatly enhances the skin drying aspect of kava.

Like you said with TCM.. I believe that most of them would consider our dry skin an expression of liver congestion

 

[skippykava]

nhoeg, I've stopped drinking kava because it was giving me horrible dry eyes that would happen about two days after having only one kava session, not drinking it every day.
I searched the forum again for "Dry eyes" and found this post of yours. What is interesting is that I've had dry eye problems over the past few years without drinking kava now. I never had these problem before. The problems however seem to be related to certain triggers like it being very cold outside and very dry hot air inside for example. I don't think I ever had these triggers triggers present until recent years, so i can't say if they woudl have caused this in the past. Dry heat in the winter is a frequent cause of dry eyes, but I never had so much heat before indoors or had a different heater, I don't know. I've also had the dry eyes in the summer before in the last year, however it was triggered by food in that case I think.
I had been experimenting both with high fat low carb diets, which apparently decrease mucus production. I'm not sure, but very high doses of salt may as well.
Also certain plants decrease mucous production I've learned and I was eating those for the first time too, or in higher amounts that I ever had in the past.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/398029-foods-that-reduce-mucus/
"In addition to supplying nutrients, garlic, watercress, celery, pickles, onions, lemons and parsley reduce mucus production, according to the University of Maryland Medical Center, or UMMC."
I think cilantro also decreases mucus as I think it has caused me dry eyes as well. So, go easy on all of these foods. When I was eating half an onion a day in my soup I got dry eyes. When I added a fist full of cilantro to my soup I got dry eyes.
I don't think garlic did it, but garlic gave me insomnia. Ginger also gave me insomnia, but I believe that it is because it was high in choline and eggs which are also high in choline gave me insomnia.

 

[nhoeg]

Hi @skippykava and thanks for your reply. I think you are completely right about the fact that dry winter weather is bad for dry eyes.

My eyes seem especially dry and irritated these days. I also happen to have conjunctivitis in my eyes, which I do think have a connection to my dry eyes.

I think the different diets online seems like a complete jungle for me. Alkaine diet, auto-immune protocol, gluten free..... they are all representations on different paradigms with little or no science to back them up.

 

[nhoeg]

@nhoeg, did you ever post the results of your allergy panel test results? I'm interested in the results but haven't seen them.

The test results did not show anything unfortunately. My skin did not react at all to the kava attached. My doctor is skeptical about it being caused by histamine intolerance. He says that it is more likely rosacea, which could be a logical explanation for my eye symptoms (ocular rosacea) and the fact that I have some sort of chronic conjuctivitis in my eyes. There is no logical explanation on the connection to kava. Kava may have caused something in the first place, but it is impossible that my symptoms still is due to kava (because I dont drink it anymore). At least this is what the doc is telling me. But I dont know what to believe anymore, lol.

@violet

 

[Zaphod]

1) I don't think you're whining at all. The way you describe your condition I would say that has to be annoying as hell. How do you sleep?
2) I had some reactions in the past, my eyes tend to dry out after a week or so with kava and I end up in the evil circle of irritated eyes - itching in my sleep - more irritation and eventually acquiring an infection that goes away with prescription eye ointment only. This sucks and I'd rather not drink kava at that point to be honest, so I relate.
3) kava candy is my go to. I find it does wonders for stressful periods and that I get no side effects apart from increase in both frequency and speed in regards to bowel movements when I go through a sleeve or more. It has just enough recreational value as well.
4) When I first ordered kava, Adil was still in business and I was in a place in life where I probably needed the kava more. (No pun intended) it took a few months of regular kava drinking before I really experienced any negative side effects from kava, but when I did, oh boy. Adil's extracts never gave me any trouble though.
5) I can't respond without giving notice to social life > health problems. If they really care about you, people will spend time with you without you having to eat or drink what they do for a period of time. If I were you, I would seriously do what it takes.

Just curious what type of prescription eye ointment you get? As of late, I too get itchy eyes, which then turn into styes and make my whole eyelid blow up. The last one I got the doctor recommended an oral antibiotic - but I hate those and felt like direct topical solution would be better. I have had no luck keeping them at bay with eye lid washing, and hot compresses. Witchazel helps keep the swelling down a bit but not as much as I would like....

 

[skippykava]

@nhoeg This is my second post to you today. Make sure to read my other one. I just realized you said you also have flushing after exercise. I do too, and in response to heat. These are very telltale signs of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. Also, the hives you are getting is very strong sign of mast cell activation syndrome. I don't get hives though. You should start Googling this syndrome and I bet you will find a lot of matches. Like I said, I think you hit the jackpot with me!