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Disappointed newbie here...

I realize that reverse tolerance is a thing and I knew that going into it but damn....it really sucks trying to work through it until you hit that sweet spot or “ah ha!” Moment. For one thing, this stuff is GOD AWFUL NASTY!! I am having a REALLY hard time getting past both the smell and the taste. And I thought K@ was bad when I was taking that (off of it for 6 months now! Woo hoo!) but this....this might actually be worse.

I bought KwK’s Borogu to start, medium grind and doing the traditional prep. I got that on Friday of last week and I felt absolutely nothing each time I had a drink. But, I kept at it because that’s what the whole reverse tolerance thing is about...then I realized I really wanted to try KwK’s Borongoru and can’t stand the traditional prep process so I bought the micronized instant. I got that in the mail yesterday. I probably did about 4 tablespoons spaced out about 30-60 min in between each 6 oz drink (1 T each drink) and still nothing. I don’t enjoy how gritty the micronized mix is but I slam it down anyway and I still abhor the taste.

I’m not sure how much longer I am going to give this to wait this reverse tolerance out because I really genuinely can’t stand the smell or taste of it and it’s starting to upset my stomach. I even think that it’s been triggering my Restless Leg Syndrome which blows my mind because that’s part of the reason I wanted to try this stuff, to help with the RLS!

I just don’t know if I can stick with it before I finally reap the benefits of this root.

Any advice??
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
I realize that reverse tolerance is a thing and I knew that going into it but damn....it really sucks trying to work through it until you hit that sweet spot or “ah ha!” Moment. For one thing, this stuff is GOD AWFUL NASTY!! I am having a REALLY hard time getting past both the smell and the taste. And I thought K@ was bad when I was taking that (off of it for 6 months now! Woo hoo!) but this....this might actually be worse.

I bought KwK’s Borogu to start, medium grind and doing the traditional prep. I got that on Friday of last week and I felt absolutely nothing each time I had a drink. But, I kept at it because that’s what the whole reverse tolerance thing is about...then I realized I really wanted to try KwK’s Borongoru and can’t stand the traditional prep process so I bought the micronized instant. I got that in the mail yesterday. I probably did about 4 tablespoons spaced out about 30-60 min in between each 6 oz drink (1 T each drink) and still nothing. I don’t enjoy how gritty the micronized mix is but I slam it down anyway and I still abhor the taste.

I’m not sure how much longer I am going to give this to wait this reverse tolerance out because I really genuinely can’t stand the smell or taste of it and it’s starting to upset my stomach. I even think that it’s been triggering my Restless Leg Syndrome which blows my mind because that’s part of the reason I wanted to try this stuff, to help with the RLS!

I just don’t know if I can stick with it before I finally reap the benefits of this root.

Any advice??
A couple of ideas for you:
(1) Did you wait a few hours since your last meal? 3-4 is ideal. Since it sounds like you have read quite a bit on the forum I am guessing you took this advice already.
(2) You didn't mention how much you did with the traditional prep. If you give us an idea of TBS/water ratio and how much you had over what time period we might be able to help. Good chance you didn't quite have enough, or a strong enough grog.
(3) 4TBS of micronized is a good amount, but you may have spread it out too far for it to really hit you. I would recommend since you have it, to do 2-3TBS of microgrind all at once on an empty stomach.

So in short give us a bit more detail on your traditional prep, and/or ramp up your microgrind. My experience is it took me 2-3 days of microgrind use, but I severely underdosed the first 2 days. The third day I had ~3TBS all at once and it smacked me right across the head. Oh, yeah....don't eat!
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
I realize that reverse tolerance is a thing and I knew that going into it but damn....it really sucks trying to work through it until you hit that sweet spot or “ah ha!” Moment. For one thing, this stuff is GOD AWFUL NASTY!! I am having a REALLY hard time getting past both the smell and the taste. And I thought K@ was bad when I was taking that (off of it for 6 months now! Woo hoo!) but this....this might actually be worse.

I bought KwK’s Borogu to start, medium grind and doing the traditional prep. I got that on Friday of last week and I felt absolutely nothing each time I had a drink. But, I kept at it because that’s what the whole reverse tolerance thing is about...then I realized I really wanted to try KwK’s Borongoru and can’t stand the traditional prep process so I bought the micronized instant. I got that in the mail yesterday. I probably did about 4 tablespoons spaced out about 30-60 min in between each 6 oz drink (1 T each drink) and still nothing. I don’t enjoy how gritty the micronized mix is but I slam it down anyway and I still abhor the taste.

I’m not sure how much longer I am going to give this to wait this reverse tolerance out because I really genuinely can’t stand the smell or taste of it and it’s starting to upset my stomach. I even think that it’s been triggering my Restless Leg Syndrome which blows my mind because that’s part of the reason I wanted to try this stuff, to help with the RLS!

I just don’t know if I can stick with it before I finally reap the benefits of this root.

Any advice??
fwiw I drank it every day for two months at first and it never did anything except give me vivid dreams. After that I strategically tritrated up until I hit a krunk state. But many if not most people go through a period of RT. Avg is about 2 weeks but for some it's 2 months.

If you aren't getting an effect, there's no reason to waste kava by drinking more than you need for daily priming of the pump, which is only one glass of the stuff. Till you get past RT anything over that is money down the drain, plus nausea and a sore stomach to no purpose. Maybe try a normal krunk dose (4 TBS) maybe once a week on weekends, remembering that it will take about 20 minutes to take effect after you drink it, maybe even 30 min. Hope this helps.
 
A couple of ideas for you:
(1) Did you wait a few hours since your last meal? 3-4 is ideal. Since it sounds like you have read quite a bit on the forum I am guessing you took this advice already.
(2) You didn't mention how much you did with the traditional prep. If you give us an idea of TBS/water ratio and how much you had over what time period we might be able to help. Good chance you didn't quite have enough, or a strong enough grog.
(3) 4TBS of micronized is a good amount, but you may have spread it out too far for it to really hit you. I would recommend since you have it, to do 2-3TBS of microgrind all at once on an empty stomach.

So in short give us a bit more detail on your traditional prep, and/or ramp up your microgrind. My experience is it took me 2-3 days of microgrind use, but I severely underdosed the first 2 days. The third day I had ~3TBS all at once and it smacked me right across the head. Oh, yeah....don't eat!

I definitely leave more than 3-4 hours between food and kava, that’s not the issue. When I was doing the traditional prep I was doing 4 TBSP per 8 oz of water so I did two servings totaling 8 T and 16 oz of water. I have to pee 1,000,000,000 times per day without kava I tried not to drink too much liquid especially something that is a diuretic.

I just tried your suggestion of 3 T of the micronized instant in one drink and holy hell the only thing I felt was dizziness and intense nausea. Oh and my mouth is numb lol. I had a light snack just to tamp down the nausea and I’m going to go lay down to minimize the dizziness. Is this normal??
 
fwiw I drank it every day for two months at first and it never did anything except give me vivid dreams. After that I strategically tritrated up until I hit a krunk state. But many if not most people go through a period of RT. Avg is about 2 weeks but for some it's 2 months.

If you aren't getting an effect, there's no reason to waste kava by drinking more than you need for daily priming of the pump, which is only one glass of the stuff. Till you get past RT anything over that is money down the drain, plus nausea and a sore stomach to no purpose. Maybe try a normal krunk dose (4 TBS) maybe once a week on weekends, remembering that it will take about 20 minutes to take effect after you drink it, maybe even 30 min. Hope this helps.
Do you mean a normal krunk dose of micronized or do you mean the medium grain and traditional prep?

I just tried the suggestion above and took 3 T of micronized instant in one go and I became very dIzzy and nauseous afterwards to the point where I need to lay down to prevent throwing up. I haven’t eaten since very early this morning. So it’s been much longer than 3-4 hours between kava and food. I had a light snack to help keep the nausea at bay.

I’ve read your posts about how long it took both you and your wife to feel the effects of kava. So do you suggest I just do one shell of the lowest dose (for ex: micronized instant, 1 TBSP) each day until I feel something?
 

fait

Position 5 Hard Support
I just tried the suggestion above and took 3 T of micronized instant in one go and I became very dIzzy and nauseous afterwards to the point where I need to lay down to prevent throwing up. I haven’t eaten since very early this morning. So it’s been much longer than 3-4 hours between kava and food. I had a light snack to help keep the nausea at bay.
What from literature I've read on micronized kava, the nausea is frequently the result of ingesting the outer layers of kava root. Depending on the vendor, micronized kava may have the roots peeled prior to grinding, to reduce this nausea, but they can only remove so much. Consuming grog made with medium-grind kava or instant should alleviate most nausea-problems, even at higher quantities of kava consumed. The bark on kava roots is the culprit here, and with a good strainer bag with traditional prep or with Aluballs, you should drastically reduce consumption of this bark.

If you're looking to microdose kava to get through reverse tolerance, the suggestion of 1 tbsp of micronized per day should do it. If you have a beverage shaker, consider buying one of Kavafied's Aluballs and shaking a cup of kava with that. This is a great way to prepare medium-grind kava, particularly small quantities. Traditional prep with a strainer bag is only worth your time if you plan to drink a lot of kava in a single evening or if you're sharing your grog with multiple people (even a 2nd person makes traditional prep more worth while.)
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Do you mean a normal krunk dose of micronized or do you mean the medium grain and traditional prep?

I just tried the suggestion above and took 3 T of micronized instant in one go and I became very dIzzy and nauseous afterwards to the point where I need to lay down to prevent throwing up. I haven’t eaten since very early this morning. So it’s been much longer than 3-4 hours between kava and food. I had a light snack to help keep the nausea at bay.

I’ve read your posts about how long it took both you and your wife to feel the effects of kava. So do you suggest I just do one shell of the lowest dose (for ex: micronized instant, 1 TBSP) each day until I feel something?
well, some people, lucky ones, like our oldest son, they have zero RT, they like the taste, it feels good, from their very first shell. I'm not one of them and it looks like you aren't either. So you have to wait out RT, till your body adapts, basically your receptors that will be kavalactone receptors need to adapt themselves to it through repeated exposure, but there's no reason the repeated exposure needs to be at a high dose. You can do it at a low dose, as long as it's sufficient to train your receptors. And anything above that will either not do anything, and be wasting good root, or be so much it makes you feel like crap, which is an even greater waste of root. Kava should not ever feel bad. It should feel good, like every time. So, anyway, yeah, you can keep trying high doses and hope that will break you through RT. It might work or it might not, but it will make you feel bad if you take too much at once and have no good effects. Or you could just take small daily doses to train your body to accept kava and every once in a while say on weekend, have a bigger dose, and see if you are past RT yet, if not, back to the lower daily dose and try again in a week, until you get there. There are some people who can never get there, but that's fairly rare, maybe 2% of the population or something.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
I just tried your suggestion of 3 T of the micronized instant in one drink and holy hell the only thing I felt was dizziness and intense nausea. Oh and my mouth is numb lol. I had a light snack just to tamp down the nausea and I’m going to go lay down to minimize the dizziness. Is this normal??
Drinking a sufficient amount of kava should result in feeling at least some pleasant effects and IMO only drinking a Tbsp of root every day is just a waste of time and money. If all you felt from 3Tbsp of the micro was dizziness and nausea then you need to try something a bit higher potency. I'd recommend products like BKH Nangol, 11 year waka, Nambawan, realkava.com 5 Star, Kava Supreme, Fiji Fresh Waka, Kava Vinaka Waka or anything from Kava Time. These are among the higher grade products available now and you'll be less likely to have the experience you just described. The reason that the reverse tolerance idea has gained so much traction over the past couple of years is due to the high amount of extremely weak root that's flooded the market and that's usually what people are starting out with.
 
Drinking a sufficient amount of kava should result in feeling at least some pleasant effects and IMO only drinking a Tbsp of root every day is just a waste of time and money. If all you felt from 3Tbsp of the micro was dizziness and nausea then you need to try something a bit higher potency. I'd recommend products like BKH Nangol, 11 year waka, Nambawan, realkava.com 5 Star, Kava Supreme, Fiji Fresh Waka, Kava Vinaka Waka or anything from Kava Time. These are among the higher grade products available now and you'll be less likely to have the experience you just described. The reason that the reverse tolerance idea has gained so much traction over the past couple of years is due to the high amount of extremely weak root that's flooded the market and that's usually what people are starting out with.
So what would you suggest I do with the KWK stuff I bought? What’s the best way to get the benefits from the micronized instant even though it isn’t as potent as the brands you recommended? I just feel like not using what I have is a waste of the money I spent on it....
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
So what would you suggest I do with the KWK stuff I bought? What’s the best way to get the benefits from the micronized instant even though it isn’t as potent as the brands you recommended? I just feel like not using what I have is a waste of the money I spent on it....
I would mix it with something stronger at a later time. If you're getting strong nausea and dizziness to the point you have to lay down and are not getting any good feelings then taking more probably won't be worth it and 3Tbsp of micro is a pretty big dose per cup. It won't hurt to take small amounts that don't cause you those side effects but I wouldn't expect much if you felt nothing good with the 3 Tbsp dose.

What I highly recommend doing is buying small amounts from a few different vendors before you make a large purchase. That way you can figure out what works best for you with the least amount of wasted money. If the nausea bothers you then a better alternative to micronized is instant powder made from fresh/green kava. The one sold by BKH is always good and instant is so much easier on the stomach than micro.
 

Kava4All

Kava Curious
I realize that reverse tolerance is a thing and I knew that going into it but damn....it really sucks trying to work through it until you hit that sweet spot or “ah ha!” Moment. For one thing, this stuff is GOD AWFUL NASTY!! I am having a REALLY hard time getting past both the smell and the taste. And I thought K@ was bad when I was taking that (off of it for 6 months now! Woo hoo!) but this....this might actually be worse.

I bought KwK’s Borogu to start, medium grind and doing the traditional prep. I got that on Friday of last week and I felt absolutely nothing each time I had a drink. But, I kept at it because that’s what the whole reverse tolerance thing is about...then I realized I really wanted to try KwK’s Borongoru and can’t stand the traditional prep process so I bought the micronized instant. I got that in the mail yesterday. I probably did about 4 tablespoons spaced out about 30-60 min in between each 6 oz drink (1 T each drink) and still nothing. I don’t enjoy how gritty the micronized mix is but I slam it down anyway and I still abhor the taste.

I’m not sure how much longer I am going to give this to wait this reverse tolerance out because I really genuinely can’t stand the smell or taste of it and it’s starting to upset my stomach. I even think that it’s been triggering my Restless Leg Syndrome which blows my mind because that’s part of the reason I wanted to try this stuff, to help with the RLS!

I just don’t know if I can stick with it before I finally reap the benefits of this root.

Any advice??
Biggest thing with kava at least for me is I dont eat anything all day until after my evening kava session. Food in my opinion is the #1 reason you wont feel the effects of kava. It really has a impact on its effects.
 
Biggest thing with kava at least for me is I dont eat anything all day until after my evening kava session. Food in my opinion is the #1 reason you wont feel the effects of kava. It really has a impact on its effects.
That’s not an issue for me. I don’t usually eat during the day anyway so when I take the kava it is on a truly empty stomach.
 
I would mix it with something stronger at a later time. If you're getting strong nausea and dizziness to the point you have to lay down and are not getting any good feelings then taking more probably won't be worth it and 3Tbsp of micro is a pretty big dose per cup. It won't hurt to take small amounts that don't cause you those side effects but I wouldn't expect much if you felt nothing good with the 3 Tbsp dose.

What I highly recommend doing is buying small amounts from a few different vendors before you make a large purchase. That way you can figure out what works best for you with the least amount of wasted money. If the nausea bothers you then a better alternative to micronized is instant powder made from fresh/green kava. The one sold by BKH is always good and instant is so much easier on the stomach than micro.
Is the BKH instant a heady or heavy kava? I am looking for an evening kava not one that will be on the stimulating side.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Is the BKH instant a heady or heavy kava? I am looking for an evening kava not one that will be on the stimulating side.
It's fairly balanced in effects and probably won't negatively affect your sleeping. The instants from RoH and realkava.com are more sedating. If you want something to drink before going to sleep the RoH is probably going to be the best. The Fire Island instant from nakamal at home is also worth a try if you want to go the instant route. I don't buy them as much anymore because of the smaller selection and cost but I like to keep some around. I did stock up on the realkava instant because I really like that one for relaxing at night and I can feel effects from smaller amounts.
 
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