Not any higher then you're genetically programmed to.
Had to post because of the dark fortress album cover.
Nope, it's extremely bitter. People claim phenibut takes hours to kick in but I don't really feel it does.
Any Gabaergic is gonna hit you hard when combined with another. Doesn't matter if one's Gaba-a and one's Gaba-b or even sodium channel for that matter. I also don't wanna preach, but be reeeally careful with phenibut, the effects aren't worth the withdrawals. If it was more like kava and you could have it daily without problems then it would be a godsend to people, but unfortunately tolerance develops to that stuff faster than anything on the planet it seems. Twice a week is the max with phenibut. I'd just stick with kava quite frankly. I've been down the phenibut magical yellow brick road and it ended up as a wasteland with a road strewn with glass. Anyways, you probably already know this, but thought I'd say it anyways. Even every other day you'll eventually start having increased anxiety and sleep problems on the off day. It's just not worth it. The half life is only 5 hours but there's gotta be other active metabolites that keep your Gaba-b's active because there's no other explanation for the rapid tolerance. And 500mg a day reduction isn't noticeable at first if your at, say 3 grams, but when you get down to 1 gram and then 500 and then none, your gonna feel it man. Then what? Benzo's? Check out "another phenibut casualty" on mindandmuscle.net...it's just not that easy. The longer your on it, the worse it's gonna be. It's not just one week of withdrawals and then your okay, it lasts much longer. Not benzo long, but long enough. Also, at higher amounts it starts hitting Gaba-a as well. Now your having to get Gaba-a back to normal as well as Gaba-b. Higher than that and it affects dopamine. You'll start to have to dose multiple times a day (if you don't already) because otherwise you can't sleep and get anxious at night. When you have to take large amounts in the evening as well, the dopamine will keep you up. It's gonna turn into a trainwreck dude, trust me. Better try to find an alternative, a kava that's uplifting and not too sedating, and get off now. You can't take it forever, that just doesn't happen. Last but not least, it's not gonna be legal much longer.
Your last sentence is one of the reasons I'm tapering off it. I'm down from 8g to 6 now. I'm tapering by 500mg every three days. Yeah I agree there has to be something more going on then just a 5hr half life because it takes almost 3 days to start to feel the drop in dose. Also why I only needed to dose it at night. How did you get off it? Dose? I have benzodiazepines on hand if needed. Takes several weeks to develop tolerance/dependence on them from what I hear.
Glad to hear that your tapering off. It can start to get rough on your organs at higher amounts. Wow, 6-8 grams in the evening would keep me up from the dopamine. I was at 6 grams at the most and had been taking it over a year. I'm still tapering actually, I'm at 3 grams now. I have to go pretty slow because I have chronic myofascial pain (chronic muscle pain and trigger points [nasty knots]) in my back and legs. So being that phenibut is a Gaba-b agonist with muscle relaxing properties, tapering off gives my muscles hell. It's pretty damn painful. Robaxin is the only thing I've found that helps it some. Soma would help even more, but docs don't wanna prescribe it anymore. Ya, your right about the 3rd day, I start to feel it some at the end of the 2nd day. If your comfortable at 500mg every 3 days then keep with it, but it takes a week to get over the worst of a reduction. Also, as you get lower, I'd recommend reducing by smaller amounts because you start to feel it a lot more as you get lower. I've tapered off methadone twice because I took it before and after my back surgeries and it was definitely harder as I got lower. The last drop is always the worst. It really comes down to how you feel though, there's really no one single method. It affects everyone differently. There's a few supplements you can take to help also, with kava being the most effective aid (other than benzo's). The thing about kava and benzos though is that phenibut supposedly affects Gaba-a receptors also at higher amounts. So taking them a lot, IF that's true that it affects Gaba-a, wouldn't allow your Gaba-a's to recover. I use them anyways if needed, but try to keep it to a minimum. Also, different benzo's develop tolerance issues (and tolerance means withdrawals when you stop) at different rates, so it depends on which ones you use. Phenibut affects dopamine also at higher amounts, so as you get lower I'd start taking some L-tyrosine/phenylalanine to help with that. GABA (the supplement) with some vitamin b6 can help too some. L-theanine can help, at higher amounts, with anxiety/irritability also. Not a benzo, but I noticed it helps a little. Or IF you need a benzo, maybe do half the amount you need of it with a gram of L-theanine and keep the benzo use down lower. Taurine also helps, supposedly, get your Gaba receptors back to normal quicker. DXM, in cold medicines, is a NMDA antagonist and can help with sleep some (at normal dosages) because glutamate goes out of wack when you have GABA issues from tapering. This (glutamate) is what makes it hard to sleep and causes restlessness. Magnesium glycinate is also a weak NMDA antagonist and works good with the DXM. Not sure how good daily use of DXM is, so I try to take it only when needed. A good place to get tips is mindandmuscle.net (the "another phenibut casualty" forum). It's like 60-some odd pages long. If you have any questions or need any advice, there's always someone who can help.
