verticity
I'm interested in things
I wouldn't put him in the ranks of Lebot, to me he is more a kind of Ralph Nader character. (1960's consumer activist Nader, not 2000 election spoiling Nader)
Tyler
Kava Vendor
I can understand the sentiment, however, does anyone go to Herb Pharm, or ANY OTHER COMPANY and say, since you have a vested interest in your industry we don't trust that you actually performed these tests and following the law? Since us members have a deep enough commercial and personal interest in Kava to preserve it, I would hope that it would be appreciated. Our commercial interest in kava means that we spend THOUSANDS of dollars more than our competitors to ensure that you don't drink lead, mercury, poop and mold, so that Kava doesn't get banned like it did 15 years ago for the exact same lack of quality controls that most other vendors seem to be ignoring. Hopefully the members of the forum can value an organization and its vendors that are doing the right thing for kava, as much as they value you as a consumer rights activist.
What you're doing IS a great thing and I'm not going to discount it in the least. I am in fact very happy that we are for the first time nearing agreement and having decent dialog between us.
What you're doing IS a great thing and I'm not going to discount it in the least. I am in fact very happy that we are for the first time nearing agreement and having decent dialog between us.
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ApéroNoble
The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
why would I do that when Deleted User's already provided the site with test for those kavas which are good to go, albeit not everyone has access to those test
Crunked
Proselytizer
Tyler keeps referring to the '14 pages of lab results' but does not address Deleted User's reply:
You've made mention of "14 pages of lab results" several times, so I'd like to comment on that. I believe the report you are referring to is the one posted on the BKH site in reference to their 11 Year Waka. If not, please correct me. If so, this report is 12 pages long. Ten of the pages cover microbial, heavy metals, and pesticide tests; one is a certificate of compliance from "Australian Certified Organic", and the last is a kavalactone assay from the University of the South Pacific.
The first eleven pages have never been questioned that I am aware of, though I could be wrong. It has been noted that Microbac in Kentucky does not specifically test kava, and though the sample is listed as "Perfection Piper Methysticum", the tests performed were by "food" methods. I see no reason they are not valid, but I think this is where the confusion began.
The last page is the only one I have the slightest concern about. It shows a chemotype that, while noble, bears no real relation to the claimed cultivar. Had this kava been as isolated as the vendor claims, this should not be. I have confirmed this with experts, and they are in agreement.
He says "I'm not knocking Deleted User at all with that post...". Tyler has been knocking Deleted User from the outset, usually by innuendo. Occasionally he reveals his real feelings as he did on this thread when he posted (and then removed) the following:The first eleven pages have never been questioned that I am aware of, though I could be wrong. It has been noted that Microbac in Kentucky does not specifically test kava, and though the sample is listed as "Perfection Piper Methysticum", the tests performed were by "food" methods. I see no reason they are not valid, but I think this is where the confusion began.
The last page is the only one I have the slightest concern about. It shows a chemotype that, while noble, bears no real relation to the claimed cultivar. Had this kava been as isolated as the vendor claims, this should not be. I have confirmed this with experts, and they are in agreement.
Sorry Garry, I know you don't like my 10 year background as an ethnobotanist and my working with medicinal plants other than your favorite one, as you've make it abundantly clear over and over, but likewise, I'm not particularly fond of music store owners playing Mr. Wizard with test tubes of acetone and challenging 14 pages of actual lab results. Looks like you won't have to do that anymore now that you have an HPLC. Do you plan on registering your lab, writing SOPs, doing GMP audits, etc etc etc etc to make your tests worth the paper they will come on?
I admire Deleted User for not responding to these dismissive, arrogant (AKA are the 'professionals') and offensive remarks. I am well used to politicians who won't answer the question but prefer to engage in a personal attack of their opponent. Please Tyler, stick to the issues raised and leave out explicit and implicit attacks on Deleted User. You may go some way to repairing the damage you have done to your reputation and your project, the AKA.
Tyler
Kava Vendor
Its been addressed and replied to Crunked, read above for the info on somatic mutation, and members trying their best short of flying 8000 miles to see the kava for themselves. I removed that post because it wasnt productive. In much the same manner thoug, I have had plenty of personal attacks on here and had many of my factual and scientific posts arogantly dismissed due to members personal opinions on myself and my background in the ethnobotanical field. Deleted User has brought up the fact that he just cant accept my association with any other plant than kava more times than I can count, so I would love for you to apply that same standard equally. Thanks.
D
Deleted User01
@Tyler, we are spoiled on the detail "relevant" reports that @Deleted User has posted. We are going to get even more spoiled with his future reports that show strain of Kava, Vendor and all the important kava properties. We just wish we could get that kind of "kava relevant" report from ALL our vendors because so far we have not. Exhaustive reports that bypass the important properties of kava and have relevant data blacked out are .... welll .... just exhausting. Like Hedgie said, the vendors could post the tests on their Websites without the black marker thing. They would post their strain, where it came from, Kavalactone data, Chemotype, colorimeter or some other Tudei test of your choice, and FKB if possible. If we could get that, then it would be apples to apples and nobody would be complaining. We would be jubilant and locked arm and arm and singing, "Kumbaya". But we ain't there yet though the future looks bright. 
ApéroNoble
The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
Perhaps not Herb Pharm but I assure you there're quite several which warrant a healthy skepticism. Personally I've found it pays to do your research on the company you purchase anything you consume, or get to know and trust that your local Health Food store is doing the research for the products you buy there. GMP certification while a good thing really doesn't mean much.
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Deleted User01
Perfect post. I hit the consumer reports when I buy anything. Right now, @Deleted User is my consumer reports for kava.
Tyler
Kava Vendor
Gentlemen, I think we can agree that until the end of time we can sit around and argue with ewch other. I know for me personally, its done very little in terms of being productive. Im still performing the same tests and still have the same mission as two years ago. So with that, Im going to disengage and concentrate my positive energy elsewhere.
ApéroNoble
The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
Why not agree to disagree, stick around and see what may be accomplished through diverse but cooperative collaboration
D
Deleted User01
You go @Deleted User. By the way, that certificate you posted, is that the prototype that your lab will output? Man, that is what we are looking for. WhooooHooooo!
D
Deleted User01
Well, it looks pretty good on paper anyway. It actually looks impressive. Funny, that is the first time I have ever seen a lab result page like that. So I'm thinking you are going to put together your own. Dude, you need an impressive logo to put on the top of your lab results. And some fancy colored stationary like the example above. But I know you, you are putting the Horse before the cart and doing good lab results BEFORE you print them on fancy stationary.
D
Deleted User01
Well, once @Deleted User starts cranking out results, then we have the luxury of giving it a name, buying the fancy stationary like the AKA, add a nice logo like the AKA, and all of the rest of the window dressing. Audit sounds fine to me but I ain't the tester. I'm the testee.
verticity
I'm interested in things
I dunno, "Audit" has legal implications. How about "piece of paper with some writing on it"?I don't know if it would be an issue to call it a "certificate" in order to post the results of vendors products tests. Maybe "Audit"?? Just thinking out loud...