Kava Preparation Homemade Instant Kava - Construction

[krunkedout]

Wow...

 

[krunkedout]

Just out of curiosity, what's the price tag on a piece of equipment like that?

 

[kl.new2kava]

I like the vacuum idea allot more. Just wondering how much money have you put into this adventure? I just looked up the price on that model and it was 2500$. If your putting that type of investment into it, you really owe it to yourself to start making instants. Since your going high tech, you should take it all the way and save yourself allot of time by using an industrial juice press like Judd uses over at BKH. Than start buying bulk kava and really going balls out. I know basically everybody here would be down and I'm sure many others would as well, hell you could sell it on ebay.

 

[The Kap'n]

I unloaded about a grand into this setup. I picked up the vacuum system off of ebay fully tested and refurbished. I'm actually having a custom juice press made by one of my mechanic buddies who also happens to be my best friend. He may even be involved in the production process seeing as his mechanic business is slow right now. I do plan on going all out with this once the ball is finally rolling.

 

[Vekta]

*mind blown* 0_0

 

[The Kap'n]

Guess what came on the UPS truck today?

 

[krunkedout]

Huzzah!!

 

[The Kap'n]

Now the only problem is getting this bad boy home. I'd put it in the trunk of my car...if it had one.

 

[The Kap'n]

It's home! If it doesn't work I could always make ice cream in this sucker. -50C ice cream!

 

[mos3z]

cant wait to see how it works... once you post can u describe what the vacuum pump does? i havent seen one before

 

[The Kap'n]

Well I've run into a slight snag. I say slight because its just a small setback. I figured regular anti-freeze (propylene glycol) would stay in a liquid state at -50c. Wrong. It turns into what I can only describe as extremely dense honey. I can't tell if it's expanding at all which is what I'm worried about. If there is any expansion of the fluid then it could break the glass jar used for vapor collection. This glass jar costs nearly as much as the whole setup does so I'm having to go back to the drawing board to figure out which kind of heat transfer fluid I can get away with. Oh yeah and the recommended "cryocool" liquid is 150 per liter! So I'm on the hunt for a suitable replacement. I'm thinking denaturated alcohol. We'll see.



A vacuum pump is a piece of equipment which pulls pressures far lower than atmospheric pressures. Think stratosphere or space. It's can use a diaphragm, piston, or some sort of rotary device to pull gas out of whatever you're pumping. They're actually pretty simple in theory but depending on the application they can be crazy ridiculously complex and expensive. This system is just a vacuum pump with a cold well built together. The cold well is so you can collect the water from the sample before it reaches the pump. Water + vacuum pump = bad time. Water will screw up a regular vacuum pump.

 

[krunkedout]

Hmmm have you thought about car anti freeze? I'm pretty sure it has more in it than jut propylene glycol so it might be fore suitable for the 223K range than just the glycerin on its own. And Wow that's a lot of dough for 1 liter, how long does it last before you have to replace it?

 

[krunkedout]

I did some math for you and found that the density of propylene glycol at a normal 20c is 1032 kg per cubic meter (kg/m3). At -50c this drops to 981.83 kg/m3 which is a difference of around 51. Alcohol on the other hand has a density of 785.06 kg/m3 at 20c. So it is far less dense then propylene glycol but when you drop the temp to -50c the density drops to 729.41 kg/m3. The difference here is around 53 kg/m3. So I suspect that since there is a greater difference then you will see a greater density of the alcohol than the propylene glycol when you drop the temp. So I don't think denaturated alcohol would work, it would probably be even thicker than the propylene glycol.

 

[kl.new2kava]

Methanol is commonly used a heat transfer fluid. I imagine this cryocool stuff is just an overpriced concoction of methanol and propylene or just outright methanol in itself. I found another heat transfer fluid for 74$ for 5 gallons that is basically just methanol with a fancy name. http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/chemicals-lubricants-cleaner/chemical/geothermal-heat-tranfer-fluid-methanol-5-gal?utm_source=google_pr&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Chemicals-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CPGb8PzDi7UCFUWo4AodnBkAyA I found a another way cheaper just pure methanol from dudadeisel who is really legit place to get bulk chemicals and reagents. I can personally vouch for this guy and was a regular customer before the drug task force kicked in my door a few years back. Since your use is legit, you should be fine. http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=methanol

 

[kl.new2kava]

I did some math for you and found that the density of propylene glycol at a normal 20c is 1032 kg per cubic meter (kg/m3). At -50c this drops to 981.83 kg/m3 which is a difference of around 51. Alcohol on the other hand has a density of 785.06 kg/m3 at 20c. So it is far less dense then propylene glycol but when you drop the temp to -50c the density drops to 729.41 kg/m3. The difference here is around 53 kg/m3. So I suspect that since there is a greater difference then you will see a greater density of the alcohol than the propylene glycol when you drop the temp. So I don't think denaturated alcohol would work, it would probably be even thicker than the propylene glycol.

I'm not so sure the density or specific gravity is the primary factor to consider here. From what I gather propylene has a lower freezing point than that of water but is usually sold in aquas solutions and the freezing point drops exponentially with concentration of glycol to water. The fact that 60% glycol in aquas solution has a freezing point of -48 c. Methanol has a freezing point of  97.7c. My guess on the the thickness of the fluid would be the result of the aquas counterpart crystallizing and adding to the viscosity of the fluid.  I'd say that buying it pure glycol and creating a 60/40 mixture with methanol would be ideal as it would be non-aquas and would have a freezing point well below -60c and would also have the type of viscosity that the system was engineered to use. One point to consider is that pure glycol is about 2.5 times more corrosive than water alone and would cause the system to deteriorate rather quickly adding methanol would likely negate allot of the corrosive nature. I am under the impression that "cryocool" is just a blend of glycol and methanol and they keep the formula secret to thwart people from just making it themselves for a fraction of the price. From what I read it has warnings for being flammable and that would imply alcohol as alcohol is much more combustible than glycol, but glycol is combustable on it's on.

 

[krunkedout]

Hmmm I see your point new2.

 

[The Kap'n]

The fluid I'm using actually is considered RV boiler anti-freeze. Pure propylene glycol. I'm using it at 100% concentration. So what you're saying is to make a mixture of glycol/methanol. As in replace the water portion of the normal anti-freeze and replace it with alcohol. I'm weary of adding any water to it, as if expansion occurs by accident I'm out a $400 fancy glass jar. I'd love to get my hands on a "sample" of that cryocool just to see if I could figure out what it is. For $150 per liter it better harvest and knead my kava too!

 

[kl.new2kava]

My opinion on the matter is that cryocool is just some type of mixture containing propylene and methanol. If your using pure glycol than likely the temp your running it as is getting close to the the freezing point and causing a thickened viscosity in the fluid. Pure methanol has a freezing point of -97.7 c and may work fine alone, but if the manufacturer recommends this specific compound than it is likely that pure methanol would not work as they simply would have stated that. Finding out the mixture level would be crucial as it could damage the machine using the wrong fluid. I'd say 60/40 glycol/methanol as a guess, but that is simply a guess. Do not add water at all, that would certainly be ill advised. Water would just raise the freezing point and it would likely totally crystallize and destroy the system. I'd almost say bite the bullet and buy the expensive stuff as type of experimentation could destroy the system and you would be screwed. Buy some and then have it sent of for a HPLC analysis and find out the exact components and make it yourself from there.

 

[krunkedout]

The only thing I would be worried about is the expanding of the methanol as the molecules become less tightly packed as the temperature drops. That's really just speculation though, as I don't know what the rate of expansion for methanol is. New2 seems to have a goo idea with glycol/methanol mix.

 

[The Kap'n]

Done. I'm going to try just that. I'll let it go through a freeze cycle with no glass jar and see if it slushes and see how much the viscosity jumps. I can always switch it off if it looks like it's about to do something I don't agree with.

Edit: Oh, and I ordered from Dudadiesel which is about 2 hours from where I'm at, so I should have 2 bottles by tomorrow, or possibly Wednesday. Thanks for the link.