Discussion in 'Root of Happiness (Online Store)' started by kasa_balavu, Nov 1, 2016.
Like I said, first hand answers will be coming shortly.
The COA actually says the extraction method is hydroalcoholic, in other words, using a mixture of water and alcohol. The extraction method is "Counter Current". This is a separation method that involves some kind of big machine that kind of jostles the powder around in the solvent.
When I try to find information on counter current kava extraction, this comes up: a Chinese company selling a very similar sounding extract:
It is a pretty extreme example, I will admit. I did not in any way mean to imply that Polynesians are like Nazis, or that anyone thinks they are. It was just to point out that when a foreign culture appropriates a name from another culture, there is always the possibility that the people in the culture it is appropriated from might be offended if it is used in a way that seems insensitive or inappropriate to them.
Well, we have already heard a couple first hand answers from Melanesians here.
I will admit though, that before I joined this forum and started learning about kava, I had never heard of Melanesia. My mental map was: there was Australia and New Zealand, and a bunch if islands called Polynesia. (Oh, and I didn't know Hawaii was part of Polynesia) And there was also something called "Micronesia". I wasn't clear on the difference between Micronesia and Polynesia. Actually, I am still not clear on that. So I can see how someone living in Melanesia could easily be exasperated at the ignorance of people like me who didn't even know that the place they live in has a name, much less what the name was.
Well you'll soon have a handful of first hand answers from people who have no idea which company is behind the product in question.
Does the fact that you are hanging out with kava farmers in Samoa mean that you will be selling Samoan kava? That would be nice.
It looks that way. I just want to see the farms myself, but all sounds good. There is someone who is ready to do the exporting, meaning they have the registrations and knowledge necessary, and that is sometimes hard to find. If all goes smoothly, we could have a Samoan kava in under a month.
It's an alcohol extract, not a CO2 extract. China does have it's own GMP. Theoretically, Chinese production plants that export to the US could comply with FDA GMP. I'm not sure if that is the case here, or if complying with the Chinese GMP is considered good enough to also comply with the FDA GMP.
You can't accurately determine the nobility of the source material used to make extracts, because the extracts can be manipulated chemically to make them appear noble.
Wow. This makes me think they accidentally used the wrong image in their graphic. This could be a file name error. I hope it's a file name error.
Edit: Has anyone contacted Root of Happiness about this?
Nice one Headgie! But someone has to be the guinea pig ... With your iron constitution you are a suitable candidate. Call us from the ER with a full report.
Just kidding .... Hey, I'll bet Chinese Food potentiates that particular extract.
To be clear and forthcoming, I added his products to the folder. I have nor had any reason to think anything negative of his products. I have been in touch with him, he did not ask me to add anything, this is something I took upon myself as I do for any other vendors on this website.
The difference is that I'm upfront about it
I'm 99% positive I know who his wholesaler is for this. I'll post a CoA when I'm at a desktop to show the similarities.
edit: On second thought, I'll let RoH speak for themselves.
Look, despite ROH being a competitor, I want to come out and say that from all I know they're doing things right and have good products. I know the sources of much of their kava and it's all really good material. They're also testing more products more consistently than anyone I know. They test for KL, FK, microbiological, and heavy metals. It's extensive. I'm nearly certain they don't currently sell any tudei or mixes, and their instant is top notch.
As for this CoA, there are clearly inconsistencies. Maybe they uploaded the wrong file, maybe they changed the source material from Borogu to a Fijian kava and forgot to update. I really don't know. Funny thing is, they were trying to be upfront and helpful by doing something that no other vendors do, and now they're taking heat maybe just because a single CoA has a typo. I can say that if they're saying it's noble that would likely be because the source material was tested before it was processed.
People ask why ROH wouldn't be more active here. This is why. Someone notices an inconsistency and instead of sending a friendly question in a PM or something members post loud shouting graphics with FFFFUUUU all over them, practically guaranteeing you won't have it cleared up.
I know there are some passionate members here, but give the guy a chance before busting out the pitchforks. No need to be so accusatory .
Oh the Kava Forums. Where to even begin? Nazis? Cultural insensitivity? CHINA? I will try to break this down in terms that everyone can understand and leave no room for misinterpretation, or room for Nazi associations etc..
Polynesian Gold™ is a trademarked brand of Kava extracts that was started in 2012. This is a trade name for specialty extracts that utilize our proprietary processing methods to attain desirable characteristics, such as water solubility, or preferential chemotype profiles. Period. The Polynesian Gold™ brand encompasses all types of different kava extracts (water, CO2, Hydroalcoholic etc.) from all types of different Kavas from all over the South Pacific, Melanesian and Polynesian islands alike. This is no different than "Americas Tire Company" selling car tires that are produced in Japan. I'm sure you can find any number of thousands of similar examples of names of companies vs. raw material / manufacturing origins, if you weren't simply looking to smear our company.
Polynesian Gold™ is manufactured by Root of Happiness, an American Company. We are the manufacturer of this product. In our write up, we are stating the simple truth that 99% of all cheaply made, mass produced Chinese Kava Extracts, like those that you would find on Alibaba or TradeKey, are garbage and potentially hazardous. Is this really news to anyone here? We are pointing this out to the public because we have run literally hundreds of analytical tests on these sorts of products looking for a cheaper way to produce them, not so that someone can take it out of context and smear our company.
We contract various FDA GMP facilities to process our materials, using OUR methods and OUR raw materials so the we have control over the process. Some are in China, some are in India, others are right here in the good old USA. In FDA terms, since it is our raw material, our extraction technique, our spec sheets, our analytical testing afterwards, and us packaging the products, this makes us the MANUFACTURER of the product. That makes our contract lab.... the processor of our raw material. We specifically point out the difference between cheaply made mass produced, ready to buy extracts from China, and our brand of products the we custom manufacture.
I am unaware of any other company on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter, who is willing to be as up front as we are and publicly post current full Certificates of Analysis on our products showing the amount of detail that we do, even down to where our materials are processed for our consumers to view and make their decisions. If every vendor would be forced to tell you detailed information such as where their materials are processed, many of them would simply state "my garage". Or analytical testing method, "It tastes good".
As I understand it, someone has taken just about everything that they possibly could about this product out of context and issued a product alert for the purpose of smearing our company... based upon the geographical location of our contract lab for this batch of material, and not liking the brand name of the product. Is there a quality control issue with this product? Did it test any different than what we've stated? If not, I'm not sure that a knee-jerk reaction product alert is warranted.
There are no processing facilities in Van, Fiji, or anywhere in the South Pacific that are capable of carrying out our extraction teks, and the amount of material needed to produce a batch f extract is enormous. It makes financial sense to ship directly from the islands to a processing lab, rather than to us, and then to the lab.
Thank you for your replies. Ok, so this extract is produced in China in accordance with your instructions from the raw material that you arrange/source from the islands. Obviously you don't have to answer this question (or any other question), but out of curiosity: is it really so much cheaper to get it done in Asia rather than in America? I think many customers are a bit concerned about the integrity of the Chinese manufacturers/contractors in light of all the scandals with their extracts and other food products. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there is any issue with your extract. All I am saying is that China has a rather terrible reputation when it comes to food safety and kava. I know you are aware of this. So in this context, wouldn't it make more sense to do it in America? Just from the POV of PR/reputation? Perhaps it's just too expensive, I don't know. All I am saying is that different places have different reputation. E.g. cheese or watches from Switzerland will appear as more trustworthy and reliable than cheeses and watches from North Korea, China or Burundi. But maybe it's just my personal bias..
Hey Henry. America has a rather terrible Food Safety track record. Germany was the source of the Kava extract that caused the ban 20 years ago.. No place is a safety guarantee. I use the contract labs that I use because they have international standards such as ISO 9001, are certified by NSF GMP auditors, and have American FDA facilities and warehousing. This is also precisely why our material is tested before it gets extracted, after it is produced, and after it is received here. I know of no other product offered here that undergoes three sets of tests before being offered to the consumer.
AKA is another topic for another thread.
Separate names with a comma.