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Interrogatory and Vendor Updates - Root of Happiness 30% Kava Extract

Discussion in 'Root of Happiness (Online Store)' started by kasa_balavu, Nov 1, 2016.

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  1. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    I guess part of the issue is painting with too broad a brush about how crappy Chinese products are, in general. That is a vast generalization, considering that "China" consists of 1 billion people, and probably millions of different businesses and processing facilities.
    Bula Kava House and Kojo Douglas like this.
  2. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    @kasa_balavu perhaps you could consider adding additional info to your original post informing new readers that the vendor has responded to your post and that his reply can be found below? some people might not feel like reading the whole thread and this way they'll know that the vendor has responded to your post and provided additional information.
    Kojo Douglas and verticity like this.
  3. Krunʞy

    Krunʞy . Admin

    I have updated the information for that product on his folder here as it was updated on his website, if I missed anything, please let me know.
  4. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    Wait that's weird. The OP's original screen shot of the COA shows a chemotype of 426351. But the COA now up shows 245361. Why did it change? What's going on????
    Screenshot of COA right now:
  5. Krunʞy

    Krunʞy . Admin

    The COA above is the one I originally posted on ROH's product folder, not sure where the OP got the other one or why it's different.
  6. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    The lot number is identical. The KL% is different too: 30.66% now, 32% in the original.
    Chemotype and KL% are the only differences I see. The moisture content is identical in both: 2.89%

    @KrunkyMonkey what do you mean by the the "one I originally posted on ROH's product folder". When did you post your version? After this thread was created?
    Harpo likes this.
  7. Krunʞy

    Krunʞy . Admin

    Of course not, this all started after I resurrected the ROH product profiles. The only edit I made tonight was to the product's description. (that was the only update made since I listed all of ROH's products)
  8. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    OK, sorry, I just wasn't sure what you were referring to. Do you remember approximately when you posted the original COA to the profile?
    So, @kasa_balavu where and when did you get your image of the COA?
  9. Krunʞy

    Krunʞy . Admin

    5:01pm on Monday.
    verticity likes this.
  10. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    I see the text in the description is different, too. Today it says

    "Not only do we test the total kavalactone content, but we test each individual Kavalactone to ensure that the chemical profile of our extract is of a desirable noble chemotype."

    Using, on Oct 22 it said:

    "Not only do we test the total kavalactone content, but we test each individual Kavalactone to ensure that the chemical profile of our extract is the most desirable “426” chemotype."

    The full image of the COA is not available on the archived site, so I don't know what it says.
  11. Tyler

    Tyler Member Kava Vendor

    Historically, this has been a 426 chemotype extract, produced from Borogu root. Recently, as explained earlier, sometimes you have to switch suppliers of raw materials and you don't get the same chemotype with every extract. This has been updated to accurately reflect the current batch of material that we currently offer. Due to the hyper vigilance of every excruciating detail of our products, descriptions, and analytics, we are also combing through our materials for any inconsistencies. Haven't found much. Thanks for making us sharper.
    nosuni and Krunʞy like this.
  12. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    OK, sorry for being hypervigilant, but why is the moisture content identical for this batch and the old one?
  13. Tyler

    Tyler Member Kava Vendor

    Not at all man. The first COA that was posted on this batch reported as a 426- this was incorrect. It has historically been a 426 and our QA manager failed to input the change in chemotype. This has been updated to reflect the proper information. All other info is correct.
  14. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    For that matter, why is the lot number identical? Aren't these different lots?
    Harpo likes this.
  15. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    Wait, so you don't create a new COA for each lot? You just copy the old one and change the individual items? Is that what you are saying?
  16. Tyler

    Tyler Member Kava Vendor

    Every batch gets a new COA. When they are created, we use the file template for that product. Generally the last batch's COA is used as the file template since most of the reportable info fields are similar, ie hydro alcoholic, name of product etc. . As just explained, my QA did not properly update the chemotype on this one when he created and uploaded it. It has been updated with the proper chemotype info to reflect the batch.
    verticity and Krunʞy like this.
  17. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    OK, fair enough.
  18. Tyler

    Tyler Member Kava Vendor

    I appreciate the vigilance, V, I wasn't being sarcastic. We do the best we can to keep up to date Info for the consumer. Thank you for pointing out the discrepancies.
    verticity likes this.
  19. verticity

    verticity I'm interested in things

    I didn't think you were being sarcastic. I appreciate your transparency.
  20. kasa_balavu

    kasa_balavu Yaqona Dina

    OK, I finally have a chance to respond. I wrote half a post earlier today but life got in the way.

    Before I go further, I want to say that I'm disappointed in the mods for censoring my post. There were two parts to my post:
    First I mentioned my own personal pet-peeve (vendors disrespecting the growers of their kava). It seems the mods are fine with this.
    Then I came to the reason I created this thread, I posted two screenshots.

    The first screenshot was of the vendors own words. It's the vendor who says that kava processed in China can't be trusted. I merely highlighted part of the text in red, but it is verbatim from his website. Aside from bashing Chinese manufactured kava, he also obscures the fact that his own product is manufactured in china.

    The second screenshot was of the product COA. The mods have seen fit to remove this for reasons I can't comprehend. The vendor has clarified in follow-up posts that the product is indeed manufactured in China and everything I said in the second part of my post was true. He said that the COA was incorrect, but the parts that were incorrect are irrelevant to my post. The product is still made in China.

    If the mods feel that the "FFFUUUU" rage meme was uncalled for, I could upload another graphic without that meme. The reason I used that was because that was my reaction when I saw the COA. A vendor bashes Chinese manufactured product, and then hidden away in the fine print is the fact that he manufactures his product in China. That's so WTF and FFFUUUU worthy, it's hilarious.

    Hi Tyler,
    Thanks for responding to my post. My responses follow:

    No, this would be like "Americas Tire Company" selling "Japanese Tires" that were actually made in Malaysia.

    Yes I can. eg: "Fraud occurs when companies attempt to pass off foreign olive oil as 100 percent Italian."

    But that's really beside the point. You aren't breaking any laws and many on here seem to agree with you that this is just absolutely fine. That's cool. It's just my opinion that you should give credit where it is due. I mean, you owe so much to kava. It'd be nice if you gave back in a tiny way by helping raise awareness of Melanesia in the American consciousness. Help teach Americans that there's more to the Pacific Islands than Fiji Water and Polynesian hula girls in grass skirts.

    Everyone else seems fine with it (and there are smarter and more sciencey folk than I on here that accept it), but I have to ask... how does this qualify as a COA? It's your info on your letterhead filled out by your employee. I mean, I could make one in half an hour... edit one in 3mins if I had a template to fill out. The Chinese manufacturer that @verticity found that sells the same product you sell also publishes a COA that they wrote themselves. Personally I would only accept a COA from a third party lab.

    Out of context? I presented a screenshot of your page. I provided no commentary of it other than to depict my honest reaction in a humorous way with a meme. But the content was a screenshot, and then your COA. I posted it here exactly in the context it was presented on your website.

    You did that yourself. Read it again. Here's a screenshot of *your words*.

    This is as yet undetermined, but as you claimed, 99% of Kava Extracts produced in China are Tudei chemotypes. As this is an extract, there is no way for us to know whether the source material was tudei. There is also no way for you to know, unless you flew to China multiple times to test all the kava that came out of those containers.
    In any case, the mods have your back, and the product alert has been removed.

    I guess the takeaway from this is supposed to be... what?... that Chinese manufactured kava is to be considered bad unless it's manufactured in a GMP facility and publishes a COA? No, that can't be, the Chinese manufacturer I linked to earlier meets that criteria.... as do just about all the other Alibaba vendors.

    I'm reaching to find what else differentiates your extract from the ones on Alibaba. One might suggest that it's about trust in your reputation as a major American kava vendor, but if I recall correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), you were one of the staunchest opponents of the noble kava "movement".
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
    FYS, Henry, Crunked and 8 others like this.
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