Is Kava Recreational?

[Kojo Douglas]

Are they different from the East African rituals? (shoot anyone who disagrees with you) :-/

In South Sudan, revenge killing is a trans-generational problem. I talked to young men who were stressed about the fact that they were expected to kill the grandson of their great-grandfather's murderer. No joke.

Most of the rituals in West Africa that I saw were for putting protective magic on land, etc. But when the village chief in a neighboring village died, they wanted the head of a virgin to be buried with him. Also, lots and lots of animal sacrifice (which I am okay with) and just genuinely creepy shit. I lived in Ghana for several years and started believing in that stuff for awhile. It's dangerous. I do believe there is power in it, though.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

To me, Buddhism has a certain amount of appeal because it is more of a cognitive practice with actual neurological milestones. I have a lot of respect for the emphasis on concentration, clear-mindedness, and patience.

 

[tribal1209]

In South Sudan, revenge killing is a trans-generational problem. I talked to young men who were stressed about the fact that they were expected to kill the grandson of their great-grandfather's murderer. No joke.

Most of the rituals in West Africa that I saw were for putting protective magic on land, etc. But when the village chief in a neighboring village died, they wanted the head of a virgin to be buried with him. Also, lots and lots of animal sacrifice (which I am okay with) and just genuinely creepy shit. I lived in Ghana for several years and started believing in that stuff for awhile. It's dangerous. I do believe there is power in it, though.

When I was living in Guatemala briefly I saw a local Idol that's worshipped in various parts of the region. I even got the "behind the scenes" experience and I'll never forget what I saw, or felt. I'm not someone to claim some type of 6th sense or something but no joke there is an element of "magic" in this world. It actually had a pretty big influence on my conversion to Catholicism a few years back.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

The way I see it, Kava doesn't actually improve your behavior, it just makes you passive and less prone to acting on your impulses. If alcohol made people go on rage attacks to absolutely anything and everyone in their path I would start to think that the alcohol was fully responsible, but because it's a selective thing it is obviously just increased impulsiveness. Happiness even without alcohol or kava requires the parts of the brain that plan and are rational to decrease in function, so adults are miserable because they're smart. I don't care about being smart, personally.
It's all about what you care about more, do you have a needy ego? Alcohol won't be for you because you're too afraid of saying the "wrong" thing to people. My own ego has lately ruined a lot of things for me. I'd become overly rational when I first got depressed "because" of Kava and am now working on lessening my dependence on logic and rationality. I'm introducing Kava again too to see whether or not I can stay relaxed on it and therefore prevent myself from becoming depressed. For what it's worth, I was more psychologically dependent on Kava than alcohol even though I enjoyed Alcohol far more. (I stressed out more about whether or not I would have enough money to buy Kava but this was because I believed that my anxiety would be unmanageable without the kava for specific reasons at the time). My dependence on social validation has also lessened, which is why I have been able to deduce certain social trends that actually make it seem as if society itself is a drug that everyone is a slave to (Not saying I'm right, but that the fact that I can think that with any amount of conviction should shed doubt on everyone else's convictions). In the end, who cares what you're dependent on to live or use in a recreational sense, just make sure you like it and that you do what you can to lessen the dangers (taking strong antioxidants, staying positive and rejecting self defeating statements like "this is the only thing that makes me happy" and whatnot, I won't go into what antioxidants actually work and all that).

I think that the moment you believe that the substance you are taking should do absolutely everything for you to make you happy is when you've gotten dependent. A recreational substance should be a supplement to life, whereas a psychologically medicinal substance might change it completely. Because of this, self medicating is more prone to negative side effects than simple recreational/supplemental usage. Even antidepressants have significantly more negative effects than the simple recreational usage of most drugs excluding the "Big Three" because antidepressants are a medication, not to be taken to supplement life but taken in hopes of changing it completely.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

if recreational means "pleasant" or "done for pleasure" then kava is indeed very recreational. if recreational means "unconcious", "unaware", "blank" or "comatose" then it's not.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

if recreational means "pleasant" or "done for pleasure" then kava is indeed very recreational. if recreational means "unconcious", "unaware", "blank" or "comatose" then it's not.

The first time I tried Kava- before having that strange "panic attack but not a panic attack"- was very pleasurable and peaceful, but it didnt transport me to a different world or take every problem out of my mind, it just moved my problems to a manageable part of my mind. Some people's problems are so seemingly inescapably bad that the only acceptable way to feel good is for those problems to just be gone completely rather than to deal with them. I can sympathize with that sometimes. The absolute only thing that has ever worked for me on the front of helping me deal with problems has been relaxation exercises. Once I can finally breathe without tensing a single muscle, all is well lol. For some reason I can't attain that with Kava, I assume it's because that "panic attack" thing formed an aversive memory strong enough to become subconsciously wired or something. I feared that the "buzz" in my head was going to overwhelm me, it felt like what I had built into my head must have been the feeling that people are talking about when they're "too high" on a substance that rhymes with Sannabis. Just saying so that nobody thinks that the Kava actually did it to me, it was just my wonderful mind at work

Also, I've never actually tried this other substance, it's just what I imagined it felt like when you have a panic attack on it. Like you're about to go down the drop on a huge roller coaster.

 

[Kravatomill]

To me, Buddhism has a certain amount of appeal because it is more of a cognitive practice with actual neurological milestones. I have a lot of respect for the emphasis on concentration, clear-mindedness, and patience.

I have long had a love/"hate" relationship with Buddhism. I find the core values very good in the original legends of Siddhartha, to me I really don't care if could speak straight away when he was born and if lotus flowers were growing wherever he took his first footsteps etc. Let's just say I find it highly unlikely... In fact it wouldn't bum me out if Siddhartha turned out to be a character out of fiction (although that's highly unlikely given the proofs), the teachings and values are what I find important.

In fact I could go on and bring in other religions such a Taosim and Christianity, I never cared much for Christianity, I think I could count all the times I've been to a church on one hand, and for sure on two. I know there are a lot of people finding all that stuff about walking on water and resurrection important to some degree, but to me as of today I can find things I actually appreciate in the teachings very much as how I view Buddhism.

What bums me out with Buddhism many times is all the fake monks down here in S.E. Asia. The hunger for money and widespread corruption within the temples. This for sure has more to do with the psyche of the national political climate and the citizens than the religion it self, but it still makes me want to stay far away from most temples since I find stress rather than peace within them.. I also can't agree with the whole "One must have a teacher/master" of the Vajrayana sects, since Siddhartha certainly didn't need a teacher in that sense, nor did any of the people of various cultures who claimed to have reached some kind of enlightenment.

That being said I enjoy practicing meditation and challenging myself to face my inner fears and "demons" that many times have kept me on a road straight into self-destruction. Kava is a very good tool for that I have found, since I am able to dig back in my past at times I'd rather just forget behind the fumes of alcohol, and while digging back being able to recognize my behavior and either debunk it as actually being better than I thought or reconcile with myself and find ways to improve until next time, rather than just pushing it down and hiding it. This to me is the absolute best thing with Kava, but since it's very abstract (as well as me being a non-NES) it's quite hard explain it. But to me that makes Kava spiritual.

 

[Atticus]

I don't see Kava as "recreational." I see it as "life changing" for me. Stress is the killer. And Kava has negated stress in my life in many ways. The people around me have noticed this and it's been nothing but positive remarks. I cannot say the same when I was drinking alcohol. To be honest, I don't really think that I will drink an alcoholic beverage again. The negatives far outweighed the good for me. And Kava really has been nothing but a positive experience overall.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Even though I still occasionally drink alcohol, I have to say that I wish I didn't. I almost always regret it and the only benefits seem to be that my friends would find it awkward if I wasn't drinking pints with them. I hang out with a lot of soccer fanatics, and beer is a staple. After a couple of beers I usually do feel pretty happy and humorous, but there is always a kind of depressing come down.

 

[Edward]

Even though I still occasionally drink alcohol, I have to say that I wish I didn't. I almost always regret it and the only benefits seem to be that my friends would find it awkward if I wasn't drinking pints with them. I hang out with a lot of soccer fanatics, and beer is a staple. After a couple of beers I usually do feel pretty happy and humorous, but there is always a kind of depressing come down.

I didn't drink alcohol for months until I went on holiday last September. My wife didn't want me to take kava on the plane. So after a few days without kava I had a drink. Since then I've been drinking more again from time to time. For the last few weeks I've been drinking on and off just because it was easier with Christmas and whatever, scheduling my food around my kava gets tricky with a wife who doesn't drink kava. I feel able to stop drinking now though and I've been on kava the last few days. I just know I'm going to have cravings for the alcohol for a while to come now, maybe a few weeks, maybe longer. As I get further away from the alcohol I know it will get easier to avoid it completely which is my aim.

Oh and Doug... you're ALWAYS happy and humorous!

 

[Groggy]

Even though I still occasionally drink alcohol, I have to say that I wish I didn't. I almost always regret it and the only benefits seem to be that my friends would find it awkward if I wasn't drinking pints with them. I hang out with a lot of soccer fanatics, and beer is a staple. After a couple of beers I usually do feel pretty happy and humorous, but there is always a kind of depressing come down.

I would just bring a pound of kava and the aluball and have some fun

 

[Kravatomill]

This is said from a 1st world perspective though, where we have endless options for entertainment and drugs. If you saw the absolute lack of anything to do on the islands where kava is king, you wouldn't doubt it's recreational status at all, as it becomes apparent it's one of the best and only unique and enjoyable recreational things to do.

^This though, alcohol has been around for quite awhile in micro/mela/polynesia as well, still kava holds a very important role in most island societies with a role that stretches from holy and political to pure recreational usage, and I'm pretty sure people haven't sticked around with it only because it's an integrated part of their culture. The fact that there are so many Kava Bars in Port Vila alone and that quite a lot of people prefer kava over alcohol kind of says it all I think.

 

[Atticus]

Even though I still occasionally drink alcohol, I have to say that I wish I didn't. I almost always regret it and the only benefits seem to be that my friends would find it awkward if I wasn't drinking pints with them. I hang out with a lot of soccer fanatics, and beer is a staple. After a couple of beers I usually do feel pretty happy and humorous, but there is always a kind of depressing come down.

I hear you. For some reason, everyone looks at me like I just landed from the moon when I drink Kava while they are drinking beer.

 

[moff000]

I think that there will be few people who buy Kava to get a big buzz out of it.
There are far cheaper ways and most are illegal but this still won't ever deter people. Kava isn't a cheap compared to illegal substances.
For me it's more of a tonic to help with stress and strains of a stressful life. I have taken kava and struggled to walk but i don't crave that feeling.

 

[Kravatomill]

I think that there will be few people who buy Kava to get a big buzz out of it.
There are far cheaper ways and most are illegal but this still won't ever deter people. Kava isn't a cheap compared to illegal substances.
For me it's more of a tonic to help with stress and strains of a stressful life. I have taken kava and struggled to walk but i don't crave that feeling.

So true, in my case that feeling is usually combined with nausea as well. 2-5 shells spaced out with 15-40 minutes in between is usually perfect for me, one thing I find weird though is that the first shell usually never really hits me in the right way no matter how strong I make it. For me if I make a balanced grog I tend to get this initial feeling of the kava effects that will come just seconds after the first shell, it's the same with beer and alcohol in general, the taste makes some part of my brain "wake up" and start to prepare for what's to come, however after that feeling I'm quite down to baseline until my second shell. If I make a really strong shell then I just get nausea instead. However if I wait 15-30 minutes after the first shell and then have another one I get this numb feeling spreading "from my head to my toes, but my mind is so cear" (as a famous kava song in youtube goes)

 

[Edward]

Well I just found out the training for my new job has been postponed until Thursday so I'm going to hit the Supreme tonight, second time out, I may have trouble walking later. Expect a coherent but rambling review ;-)

 

[Kava Kyle]

I'd say yes it can certainly be a recreational substance and here's two definitions from dictionary.com that explain why.
Recreational
adjective
1.
of or relating to recreation :
recreational facilities in the park.
2.
(of a drug or medication) used for recreation and enjoyment rather than to treat a medical condition

Recreation
1.
refreshment by means of some pastime, agreeable exercise, or the like.
2.
a pastime, diversion, exercise, or other resource affording relaxation and enjoyment.

 

[tribal1209]

Catholics use wine but it becomes......something much more trippy and is no longer wine at the end of the mass. From a Catholic lense that wine becomes Jesus. Like ACTUALLY Jesus Christ in the flesh. If there is any idolatry going on in the Catholic Church, that bread and wine is a nay sayers greatest argument.

 

[Kava Kyle]

I want to come out and say that I am not anti recreational substance use nor do I dislike Kava or think it's comparable to some "darker" substances. Kava to me is this weird grey area.

Yes you can have fun on it but it's hardly like slamming budlights. I almost want to compare it to a psychedelic except it's far from an actual psychedelic experience. It's almost like a mushroom trip without any of the visuals or thought process changes.

All I know is this stuff doesn't really seem recreational to me. It definitely isn't spiritual, but I'd say it seems more medicinal than an actual lubricant if any sort.

Kava isn't inherently spiritual...no substance is. However, it can be used to facilitate a spiritual expierence and then, by relating to the spirit, it becomes spiritual....the same way wine is spiritual in the Catholic church. Hope this helps!

 

[Kava Kyle]

Catholics use wine but it becomes......something much more trippy and is no longer wine at the end of the mass. From a Catholic lense that wine becomes Jesus. Like ACTUALLY Jesus Christ in the flesh. If there is any idolatry going on in the Catholic Church, that bread and wine is a nay sayers greatest argument.

Yes, the wine becomes spiritual because of the manner in which it is used. I have had communion with spirit, god, whatever name u give it, while using kava. I have specially used kava to facilitate the depths of my spiritual expierence while meditating.To me, kava is spiritual....to you, it might not be.