Kava nausea, what's the deal?

[Edward]

I go through stages of not really getting that much nausea and stages of getting it pretty bad especially if I go for it. Some things I have picked up from the forum so far are...

1) less root ratio to liquid seems to help although then you've got to drink more liquid.
2) Using juice or something else that masks the taste seems to help.

From my own point of view I can say that although I have felt pretty rough a few times I've never actually been sick. I seem to feel worse if I get the full body buzz which feels almost exactly like the period of time you get just before you're going to throw up. Fortunately this has never developed further and it has just settled down to a more pleasant buzz.

It would be great if we could all put our collective experience of this here and try to come up with the absolute best way to avoid this in the first place. I know there is a thread somewhere asking what causes kava nausea and/or vomiting but I don't think it got to the bottom of it completely. So... the questions are... what causes kava nausea, can it be prevented, what's the best way to calm it down once you have it?

A bit of speculation here... I'm sure I must have read something about this but kava being a topical analgesic (is that the right word?) then putting that into your stomach is just going to lead to a numb stomach which could account for the nausea? This doesn't fully explain why mixing with juice should make a difference, maybe it's something to do with the taste? I'm not generally bothered by the taste itself but maybe my stomach is?

Anyway, I'd be interested in any possible answers to the above questions.

 

[ThePiper]

For me it's usually certain heavy strains that are the only major culprit for nausea. If I experience nausea from a kava that isn't heavy it's unusual and typically related to having an empty stomach for a long period after drinking the kava

 

[Edward]

For me it's usually certain heavy strains that are the only major culprit for nausea. If I experience nausea from a kava that isn't heavy it's unusual and typically related to having an empty stomach for a long period after drinking the kava

I never eat after kava and usually drink balanced kava at the headiest, most of what I drink is heavy to some degree but I still get times when I feel fine and times when I feel a bit dodgy.

I'm thinking on this now and it could be that I'm tending to go bigger in dose since I've been drinking a bit more alcohol again recently. Could be to do with that. Rather than just seeking a medicinal dose to keep me anxiety free and feeling good I'm chasing the big buzz again?

 

[Blinkyrocket]

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/asma/asem/2003/00000074/00000009/art00015

Controlled, deep breathing works in my experience. The problem is that it's so hard to relax and breathe when you feel nauseous already.

 

[ThePiper]

On the bright side, Kava nausea is by far the most relaxing nausea I have experienced lol. I very rarely if ever get that feeling of urgency that comes with classic nausea when I drink kava. It's more of a dull persistent nausea that only really gets intense with physical activity

 

[kilakila]

Maybe it would help to think of the nausea not so much as "nausea" but the root numbing the stomach in much the same way as it numbs the mouth and tongue. Then just breath through it as @Blinkyrocket suggests. Although I've found that the mouth numbing affect seems to be lessening for me, the longer I've been using kava.

 

[VictoryRider]

I'd guess different things work for different people, but for me, candied ginger works perfectly. A chunk before the first shell,
then one after each shell. Zero nausea since I started doing that, and I always got some degree of it before.
I make my grog pretty thick and strong too.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

I used to get terrible nausea every time I drank kava. It was bad enough that I would just decide to lay down and sleep before it got worse but I have never actually vomited from it. That eventually got better and now only some strains seem to cause it and its not always consistent. I think having a small amount of quickly digestible food particles helps a lot. Just something to accompany the kava but not compete with it.

I've heard the stomach numbing theory before but IMO that is more likely to cause the appetite reduction. Even if I'm not nauseated, I do notice the off feeling caused by the numbing.

 

[GussWest]

Ginger; I like the chinese ginger soft candies.
Papaya Enzyme Chewables.

I've been getting more nausea lately too, starting to think it may be a seasonal/TCM phenomenon.

 

[Palmetto]

Lately, I've been adding about a fifth of a Tums antacid crumbled up to my kava. It raises the ph, and makes the kava taste considerably better. Fresh kava supposedly is neutral pH, but after an hour or so, turns acidic, Powdered kava is supposedly always acidic, but I haven't tested the pH yet. I tried adding Tums to some week old roots that had sat around in used filters exposed to air, heated near boiling, then allowed to cool. That should have been the most awful tasting kava, but honestly, I couldn't really taste it. I did add a full Tums tablet that time. Not sure it was related, but the kavain kick was so strong that my jaw was almost hurting from the semi throbbing feeling. Surprising, since I usually do fourth or fifth washes to save money and squeeze anything I can out of root. Perhaps the higher pH is doing something. Even if it doesn't, having less acid in your stomach has to be a good thing.

 

[tribal1209]

Drinking too much Kava too fast seems to be an issue with me. Dont get me wrong you can keep the shells flowing at a steady rate but chugging too much too fast seems to bring on some nausea.

Dose seems to play a part as well. Obviously its fun to be grogged out of your gourd, but it comes with a price. When the room starts to spin it makes sense one might feel uneasy.

Taste I also believe is another role. Kava tastes something foul and to have that powdery goodness coated on your throat for an hour leeching that same funky vibe all over your taste buds cant be helping.

 

[tribal1209]

Almost forgot. Dehydration. Drinking lots and lots if water prior isn't a bad idea I'm guessing. However we should be doing that sober as well.

Another thing to keep in mind is possible interactions with the dehydration factor. If you are drinking coffee the entire day then come home and unwind with Kava that's 2 diuretics you have been drinking non stop without water.

Withdrawals might be a rare influence as well. If you stop alcohol and switch with Kava you might be in for some unpleasantness

 

[tribal1209]

Maybe cold water tradition? Maybe that's why natives used cold water in an effort to curb nausea?

 

[kava_chief]

I do like the theory that the numbing effect causes the nausea, because the numbing can make me gag, too. To alleviate both, I usually have milk or yogurt, with yogurt being the more effective option. I have also been experimenting with antacids, and while they help, they are not near at the level of dairy.

Also, the fact that during a kava session, you may be drinking up to 4-6 cups of water before you get sick, which is a factor because you are going to feel uncomfortable with that much water in your stomach anyway, not to mention the numbing effects on top of it.

Drinking alcohol near/with kava can produce discomfort, but I think it's a little deeper than the stomach, or at least it has been in my experience. I try to avoid that at all costs because of all the warnings and stories, but sometimes relaxed discipline from either can cause me to think it's not as big of a deal.

 

[Edward]

Lately, I've been adding about a fifth of a Tums antacid crumbled up to my kava. It raises the ph, and makes the kava taste considerably better. Fresh kava supposedly is neutral pH, but after an hour or so, turns acidic, Powdered kava is supposedly always acidic, but I haven't tested the pH yet. I tried adding Tums to some week old roots that had sat around in used filters exposed to air, heated near boiling, then allowed to cool. That should have been the most awful tasting kava, but honestly, I couldn't really taste it. I did add a full Tums tablet that time. Not sure it was related, but the kavain kick was so strong that my jaw was almost hurting from the semi throbbing feeling. Surprising, since I usually do fourth or fifth washes to save money and squeeze anything I can out of root. Perhaps the higher pH is doing something. Even if it doesn't, having less acid in your stomach has to be a good thing.

I'm guessing adding milk will raise the ph somewhat?

 

[Edward]

I do like the theory that the numbing effect causes the nausea, because the numbing can make me gag, too. To alleviate both, I usually have milk or yogurt, with yogurt being the more effective option. I have also been experimenting with antacids, and while they help, they are not near at the level of dairy.

Also, the fact that during a kava session, you may be drinking up to 4-6 cups of water before you get sick, which is a factor because you are going to feel uncomfortable with that much water in your stomach anyway, not to mention the numbing effects on top of it.

Drinking alcohol near/with kava can produce discomfort, but I think it's a little deeper than the stomach, or at least it has been in my experience. I try to avoid that at all costs because of all the warnings and stories, but sometimes relaxed discipline from either can cause me to think it's not as big of a deal.

I never drink that much water with my kava, I prefer it a bit thicker. Yoghurt sounds interesting though, maybe with some fruit or honey?

 

[Myk]

I never eat after kava and usually drink balanced kava at the headiest, most of what I drink is heavy to some degree but I still get times when I feel fine and times when I feel a bit dodgy.

I'm thinking on this now and it could be that I'm tending to go bigger in dose since I've been drinking a bit more alcohol again recently. Could be to do with that. Rather than just seeking a medicinal dose to keep me anxiety free and feeling good I'm chasing the big buzz again?

Hmmm. you've noticed nausea a bit more lately and you've been drinking alcohol a bit more lately ? That mix is one that will make give anyone nausea sooner or later. Kava has a built in OD protection in that if you've have too much you start gagging and can't get it down in my experience anyway. If you are mega dosing and getting nausea that is likely your body telling you you've had too much or the grog is just too thick and you can't process it without more water. Sometimes I think the empty stomach thing is overblown. A spoon of peanut butter, a bite of cheese or a milk chocolate , a shot of milk can give the stomach a little protection and won't rob you of your buzz and will keep the nausea away.

 

[Shiny]

I go through stages of not really getting that much nausea and stages of getting it pretty bad especially if I go for it... I know there is a thread somewhere asking what causes kava nausea and/or vomiting but I don't think it got to the bottom of it completely. So... the questions are... what causes kava nausea, can it be prevented, what's the best way to calm it down once you have it?.

Are you preparing it via the traditional method using medium ground kava? If so, perhaps using a strainer bag with smaller micron holes in the mesh (I would go as low as 25 microns) would prevent any remaining particles of the indigestible cellulose/hard fibers/makas and potentially nauseating compounds from getting into your drink. I recall @Steve Mariotti would often mention using a ridiculously fine straining bag for various reasons, including this. The makas are what causes nausea in some people, and it seems to accelerate the onset of kava dermopathy as well.
Source: http://www.kavalibrary.com/Micronized_Kava.html

In terms of micronized and instant kava... I know you probably them from reputable sources, but if not... According to information in the above link, many people that filter their micronized kava "claim" that the makas are removed, and yet the consumers still complain about nausea. Nausea is usually caused by the hard fibers, makas, that still remain in the finely ground micronized Kava.

 

[Edward]

Are you preparing it via the traditional method using medium ground kava? If so, perhaps using a strainer bag with smaller micron holes in the mesh (I would go as low as 25 microns) would prevent any remaining particles of the indigestible cellulose/hard fibers/makas and potentially nauseating compounds from getting into your drink. I recall @Steve Mariotti would often mention using a ridiculously fine straining bag for various reasons, including this. The makas are what causes nausea in some people, and it seems to accelerate the onset of kava dermopathy as well.
Source: http://www.kavalibrary.com/Micronized_Kava.html

In terms of micronized and instant kava... I know you probably them from reputable sources, but if not... According to information in the above link, many people that filter their micronized kava "claim" that the makas are removed, and yet the consumers still complain about nausea. Nausea is usually caused by the hard fibers, makas, that still remain in the finely ground micronized Kava.

I regularly use all three types and find it can happen with any of them given enough dose. My regular strainer at the moment is 50 microns but I have used 85 and 100. I aluball also and when at home I strain afterwards as I find that let's more sediment through than I would like. When I am in the truck I don't strain after aluballing and just reduce the dose. I do notice the sediment can give better effects at lower doses but it is easier to make myself feel a bit funny. If I am at home I will generally use a blender with more root and strain quite well.

 

[Jay Charles]

man this has been my ongoing struggle as well. assuming your kava is good and you're not getting makas in your gut.. i've found a few things that might affect it. one is the type of strainer. i found in the past that occasionally switching to or from a nylon sock (from a more coarse traditional strainer) would fix it suddenly. also sometimes kneading works, sometimes not. if not i will put the grinds + water in a mason jar, let it soak, and then shake it as hard as i can for a few seconds. then just give it one strain and one squeeze and let the kava settle for a bit. and then i will pour off the top leaving most of the silty stuff behind (of course a little is ok and even desirable.. that can be adjusted). it's weaker this way but it will do what i need without nausea.

however i found that even doing this i was getting nausea (eventually) so i tried switching cultivars because i wondered if there was some strain-tolerance thing going on. this does seem to help often times but not always. i do think there may be some kava "strain-fatigue" though perhaps and it manifests with nausea for some people.

lately i've been in a situation where none of these solutions have been working though; and i think on top of everything, it might just be that i'm at a point where my body will start telling me i'm drinking too much kava. especially if i'm drinking lots of less-potent kava vs less potent kava.

i also get seasonal affective episodes during the winter and i notice that it seems to happen more around those times. i'm very sensitive to what my body/stomach is doing so maybe that has something to do with it. honestly when i get like this lately all i can really do is ease WAY back on my kava intake, and then come at the prep with a different approach than what i've been doing. i have to say it's very frustrating though. i used to be able to go for months and months (even a year or two) with just one kava being "it" and no problems. it does always seem to right itself though eventually.. once i do find that kava that clicks with me for long periods. it's just a matter of time till it starts working again. that's why i tend to think it's a tolerance thing more than anything else. hope you get it sorted out. (if you did i'd love to hear your solution!)