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Kava Prices Discussion

nickbroken

Kava Enthusiast
I think @SelfBiasResistor is my closest analogue on the Kava Forums, his opinions and experience about the kavas we drink almost always mirrors mine. I know some of it is our genetics and/or circumstantial experience, but at least 1/3rd of the problem is flat out weak kava(which is now expensive). I know there are many kava drinkers here who just naturally feel strong effects from smaller doses, or some drinkers who have never 'fully' felt what kava is capable of, and therefor don't have a fair reference point to compare their experience to(I used to be one). But, I think I can safely say, as someone who has traversed many different stages of kava consumption, dosage, frequency and expectation -- beginning in 2003 -- that the current era of retail kava is generally the weakest potency, compared to it's price.

I think it's important to note that most of it actually is proper good quality kava, and has nothing wrong with it, other than that it's kavalactone content/potency/effectiveness is diminished, while it's price has been going up and up and up. It's been especially noticeable since my trip to Vanuatu, which also happened to coincide with when Cyclone Pam hit, so I don't know if it has to do with experiencing how good fresh nakamal kava is, or the cyclone causing the international market to mostly receive the second-rate roots...or both...but almost ALL kava I've had since then fails to compare and RARELY even gets sufficiently close. That's 2 years of spending (probably)thousands of dollars on kava and almost NEVER experiencing a full kava buzz from the vast majority of it...even when I begin experimenting with the 10-12 Tbsp. range for one sitting.

When I was in Vanuatu, 8 out 10 experiences were full blown perfection(or near it), as good as you could ever expect from kava, and a couple of those even surpassed any of my known expectations (almost to the point of blissful incapacitation). The two lesser nights were on par with good but middle-of-the-road experiences that I'd have at home, not outstanding but acceptable. Even though the "batting average" wasn't quite that high for me with dry kava, at home, before Vanuatu, it was certainly much closer and occasionally on par with my nakamal experiences more frequently and for less money.

I don't mind paying 5-10 dollars per day on kava, if I choose, so long as it effects me the way that it should for that price. But for the last couple years, I rarely have an experience worth that money, yet I'm paying more than ever for the stuff. I can count on one hand the number of good memorable sessions I've had over the last couple years, the majority is just expensive semi-disappointment, that's just good enough to give me hope for the next bag. I can't remember the last time dry kava has made my ears ring, or my mouth numb or make me feel happily and calmly inebriated...or even a bit tipsy. Doe$n't happen.
I agree with everything you are saying, kava seems to be fickle with me compared to a few years ago, I would say maybe 1 in every 10 or 15 are amazing sessions. Hell the last amazing session I had was the first few times with nangol Noble, but like most kava I find that after a few sessions my body adjusts and it just doesn't do the same thing as it did once before. Spending a few hundred for so so results just isn't becoming feasible. I am starting to think that maybe just doing it on the weekends will be the way to go, money wise and maybe the break in between will give me something more.
 

yiki

Kava Enthusiast
In NZ a cup of coffee costs $4-5 and a beer costs $10, so I guess most people would find $5-10 per entire session rather reasonable, but I guess everyone's on a different budget..
Yeah, in germany a coffee or big beer is around 0,60$ in the grocery store or around 3$ in a pub/coffeeshop.
With Kava, you have to order it and prepare it yourself so it is more comparable to buying it in the supermarket. In that way, it is around 20x of a beer in germany.

I hope the wages in NZ are at least way higher than in germany :)
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
I can't remember the last time dry kava has made my ears ring, or my mouth numb or make me feel happily and calmly inebriated...or even a bit tipsy. Doe$n't happen.
I've thought about this a lot lately. It used to be fairly common that I would have ears ringing, sit back, close your eyes and smile type of euphoria with certain vendors products. The last time I remember that happening was early 2015.

Lately, I feel like I'm lucky to get a short lasting, mild euphoric feeling. I've noticed the descriptions of others have changed too... not as many cross eyed, ear ringing, couch locked drinkers.
 

KavaCat

Meow.
I try to factor everything in. With kava I spend zero on alcohol, half on food, nothing on black panties, far fewer silly impulse purchases. On the whole kava saves me money and pays for itself from the savings. Plus how does one put a price on what it did for me and for my wife? We would have gladly paid 10x what kava cost us for those effects.
Man, I never thought about that food angle. I do eat much less when using kava. I wonder if kava more regularly- even at current prices- would also drop my food bill... I'm actively TRYING to drop weight, so it wouldn't be a threat to my health not to eat as much as I currently do, either.

PS- what'd it do for you and your wife? I've been away for a while.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Man, I never thought about that food angle. I do eat much less when using kava. I wonder if kava more regularly- even at current prices- would also drop my food bill... I'm actively TRYING to drop weight, so it wouldn't be a threat to my health not to eat as much as I currently do, either.

PS- what'd it do for you and your wife? I've been away for a while.
Look into yerba mate for weight loss. There is a sub forum in the off topic section.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I like matcha too but I find yerba better. My theory is that it's to do with the other chemicals in there. I eat a lot less chocolate when I drink yerba as it's got the same chemicals in there as chocolate, the ones that make you feel good, so I crave the chocolate less. I'm sure there are other more scientific explanations but it's well known as being good for weight loss.
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
PS- what'd it do for you and your wife? I've been away for a while.
Kava did dozens of great things for her and me, but the main ones were it cleared up her decades long anxiety and insomnia (and pain-killing needs after she broke an arm and a leg). As for me, at the start of this year I was obese and had been drinking beer for 45 years. Kava fixed everything. Now I'm normal weight, haven't touched a drop in over 6 months and she's calm as fuck and sleeps through the night every night, 8 hours and loves it. And she's starting to not care about the psychotic foibles of the weirdos with whom she works.

PS the AluBall has really revolutionized maté for me. I cold brew it with the AluBottle and then put it in the carafe of a coffee maker to warm up. Something about that method brings out the flavour in an amazing way. Better than any of the several other ways I've been preparing maté over the years. My new ritual, when I get to work, when I get home from work, is prep a double ball bottle of maté to put on to warm, then prep a double ball bottle of grog and happily sip on both for hours. I find it's a good way of life.
 
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The Pizzabaker

Kava Curious
Funny is that in Germany gives no pharma companys they make a drug from the hole kava they buy ,
which one could receive in Germany.
And the price for 10g Micro kava from KWK from Edward cost 2,22€ in germany
3 Good beer or a cheap bottle of wine cost the same or more.
But cheap isn't kava thats right.
I try to quit my Weed consumption with kava , and weed cost 10€ a day minimum.
if it works then kava is cheaper then everyday a gramm of pot.
 
D

Deleted User01

Going back to expensive kava of poor quality. I have read accounts of wholesalers cutting the kava with everything from flour to Tudei (to keep potency). So I only buy kava from suppliers who are either farmers or who deal directly with farmers. At least quality is not an issue with farm to market kava. But you gotta be patient sometimes. Ex: The rains in Fiji have gummed up the works for people dealing with the farmer.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
I haven't noticed any better quality with the farm to market or vendors who deal directly with farmers that I've been buying from (GHK/KWK). I can think of many kava products that I've bought this year that were not as effective (or effective at all) as the same product from the same vendor that I bought last year. Same thing with last year and the year before that. Even though I needed high doses, I could still get a strong kavain rush from the more potent varieties. What's worse though for my medicinal purposes is that the heavy kavalactones seem to be very lacking -- to the point that it is losing effectiveness over other medicinal herbs.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Wow, Germany is really cheap.
The cheapest bottle of wine one can buy in NZ will cost at least $8 (i.e. 5 EUR). And we are talking about vinegar quality, undrinkable wine.
The cheapest beer (really shitty stuff) one can find will cost $1.5 (1 EUR) per tiny (330ml) bottle in a cheap supermarket and only if you buy a six pack.
No wonder we see kava as a cheap alternative :)
You are closer to the source though :)
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Yea. But good kava costs as much here as in the states, if not more actually (because of higher taxes). You can buy really cheap, low quality kava in most cities or even towns in NZ (many "dairies", i.e. local corner shops sell it), but it's usually so bad and weak (if you are lucky it's just super weak, if you are less lucky it's moulded, full of stems and or mixed with flour etc) that I'd rather not drink kava at all than drink any of this stuff.
That's interesting to know. You do have the advantage that it's not illegal to import it. It'd be a real bummer to live in Australia... so near and yet so far lol.
 

Bubba Bula

krunkadelic relic
My issue is quality, if they gonna jack up then quality should be jacked up too but no, price is higher and quality is lower.
This is a great thread. I too have been having to use more and more kava to achieve the desired effects, and I had attributed it to tolerance going up. However with everyone else experiencing the same issue at the same time it would seem to indeed be a quality problem.
 

Bubba Bula

krunkadelic relic
I just checked my records. The last time I purchased good & cheap kava was back in August 2015 from KavaBoy. They had a sale, and was able to purchase KavaBoy at $32 a pound at that time. I think normal price was $35. That was good Tongan kava back then.

So tonight, I'm going to drink the very last of my KavaBoy kava. Purchased in Feb 2016, I have been saving this kava for just the right occasion. If memory serves, the Feb 2016 batch wasn't as potent as the Aug 2015 batch was, but just the same it will be interesting to step back in time to a past kava experience. I have about 1.25 oz of the kava which should be plenty for me as I'm a lightweight and used to be enough when I was drinking Kavaboy every day. Will it be as potent as I remember? We'll see. I'll report back. For science!
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
This is a great thread. I too have been having to use more and more kava to achieve the desired effects, and I had attributed it to tolerance going up. However with everyone else experiencing the same issue at the same time it would seem to indeed be a quality problem.
That is exactly what I was thinking about myself, I must have developed a high tolerance drinking every day. That didn't seem to make sense, though since kava has always been touted as not causing tolerance and the higher blood levels of kavalactones would require less to be used to get the same effects. Then of course trying the bag of Borogu that was sold in late 2013 having such a different but familiar feel.
 

Bubba Bula

krunkadelic relic
Kavaboy was good. Nice mild flavor. I'm definitely feeling it. I'd say its more potent than a lot of kava available today, where I typically have to drink 30-40% more to achieve the same effects. This confirms to me the lowered potency of most kava on the market today as compared with the kava available a couple of years ago. In other words, its not a tolerance issue.
 
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Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Personally I don't get the equation strong = good. I think the Dua Na Bilo Vanuatu is excellent and just bought 8 pounds of it (at $36/lb). Tastes great, refreshing on ice, feels wonderful. Is it strong? No. Will it put you on the floor and incapacitated? Not even close. You can even triple ball it and chug 6 TBS worth and all you're going to feel is just really really good.

Is that a bad thing? Great tasting kava that makes you feel good at a reasonable price? I'll take 8 lbs, thank you very much.

Also, theoretically speaking, if kava is working, wouldn't you need kava that is less strong over time? I mean, if it is fixing stress and anxiety, don't you then not need kava quite as strong, because it worked? Fewer occasions where you need some heavy and powerful grog? Is it possible just to drink grog for fun, because it feels good, and if so, what then is wrong with kava that isn't strong, but merely tastes good and feels good?
 

avahZ

YAHWEH Shalom
To some extent you are right @Krunkie McKrunkface. I have kavas I use that are mild and taste less like mud that I don’t mind tossing into my morning cold brew coffee for that extra kick. But about once or twice a month I want to hit it HARD! I want to either become one with the couch or fly with the birds. I haven’t flown with the birds since flying the Fijian air. I think the "euphoric" kavas are what most ppl say when they say "strong". Its been easy to find a good heavy kava, but very hard to find a good heady one lately. Just ordered a pound of kwk tongan (Pouni Ono)
that was suggested by @ThePiper in the other thread...
 
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