Liver enzymes off

[Intrepidus_dux]

Hey there, quick post. My liver enzymes have been off. The doctors aren’t sure if I have a gallbladder problem or not. I’ve started eating low fat vegan and that has brought the numbers down a bit. I had some testing done and won’t know the results for another week or so. I’m still drinking kava, and just doing the doctor recommended diet.

See pictures for the before and after vegan diet. Hopefully I get a straight forward answer from all these tests. Some of my friends were surprised I haven’t quit kava while I wait. The reason is that I’m not convinced kava is the cause, and it replaces about four different medications which would be more stressful to my body than kava. So for now, I continue until I have more information that tells me otherwise.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Wow, I don't know what to say. Really really hope this works out for you.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

What was the date of the first set of tests? If the numbers are going down, it doesn't seem like kava is making it worse.

Have you had physical diagnostics like an Ultrasound done on your liver, gall bladder, etc? That would be much more helpful since enzyme tests only show a snapshot of function and not the whole picture. Some vitamins and supplements can also cause higher than normal enzyme production while not causing damage.

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

What was the date of the first set of tests? If the numbers are going down, it doesn't seem like kava is making it worse.

Have you had physical diagnostics like an Ultrasound done on your liver, gall bladder, etc? That would be much more helpful since enzyme tests only show a snapshot of function and not the whole picture. Some vitamins and supplements can also cause higher than normal enzyme production while not causing damage.

I had a ultrasound which showed nothing. I had a CT scan which showed nothing with the gallbladder but some liver inflammation indicating fatty liver. I don’t drink alcohol, or do drugs ect.

The first round of blood tests were done on October 13th, the Second was two days later. The following week I had a follow up with my pcp who said fatty liver doesn’t explain my upper right quadrant pain, and sent me for a HIDA scan and further blood work. I won’t know the results of all this for a couple of weeks.

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Also I wasn’t so concerned with slightly elevated blood work as I was with the abdominal pain. Gallbladder issue seems more plausible to me since I’ve had two children and lost weight rapidly after each pregnancy which puts a person at higher risk for that type of problem. Also, while I do consume grog nearly everyday, I’m not a heavy grog drinker. Usually 2-3 tablespoons used.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Fatty liver is caused by fructose and glucose ingestion becoming glycogen in the liver.
You can use a liver cooling herb like dandelion, burdock, milk thistle to bring down the over activity.
Take a break from kava for literally a few days and see how you feel.
Kava can aggravate the liver a bit because the liver has to process it .. like it does with everything . Some stuff is just heavier.. Kava is one of those although it actually slightly cools the liver. This can become stagnation and then other things will more easily aggravate the liver.. aka bad fatty foods and alcohol. The classic flush is liver heat signs when you combine alcohol and kava.
I use dandelion root decoction a lot to just clean out my liver from all the kava. You can feel it move stagnation.

The vegan diet is liver cooling and long term can cause different issues but acutely will help. Cool livers prefer sugar and carbs over fat and protein like a hot liver... you know that thin rabbit like vegan person who's pale vs that anabolic greaseball who is red in the face.

Your constitution may be cool but you have induced a state of liver heat or excess and so it needs to be cooled.
L

 

[Zaphod]

Also I wasn’t so concerned with slightly elevated blood work as I was with the abdominal pain. Gallbladder issue seems more plausible to me since I’ve had two children and lost weight rapidly after each pregnancy which puts a person at higher risk for that type of problem. Also, while I do consume grog nearly everyday, I’m not a heavy grog drinker. Usually 2-3 tablespoons used.

Good luck in your search for what ails you - it can sometimes be a long process with many doctors. If you are on multiple medications you may have to slowly eliminate each one-by-one to determine if they are the cause of the issue or some other underlying medical condition. If you deem your other medications necessary I would eliminate the kava first and see what happens...I know that is probably not the answer you want to hear, but might be best to try that first.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

I recommend finding an herbalist near you. You can search for one using the American herbalist Guild directory for people with a specific amount of clinical experience near you


https://www.americanherbalistsguild.com/herbalists-and-chapters-near-you

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

I recommend finding an herbalist near you. You can search for one using the American herbalist Guild directory for people with a specific amount of clinical experience near you


https://www.americanherbalistsguild.com/herbalists-and-chapters-near-you

Hi there,

The doctors don’t know what’s wrong. All tests are negative. AST is now 122 and ALT is 182....
Right, so giving the kava a break. Drinking a brew of ginger, milk thistle and chickory root. Will do that for four days and get blood work done again and see if the numbers come down.

I can’t afford a herbalist but I am using a Herb book and herbs I have on hand.

Will give you all the update next week when I get the blood work back!

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

What was the date of the first set of tests? If the numbers are going down, it doesn't seem like kava is making it worse.

Have you had physical diagnostics like an Ultrasound done on your liver, gall bladder, etc? That would be much more helpful since enzyme tests only show a snapshot of function and not the whole picture. Some vitamins and supplements can also cause higher than normal enzyme production while not causing damage.

I was actually wondering if it’s my multivitamins but what the hey. At this point the enzymes are going up and up so doing the herbs to try to remedy it.

 

[verticity]

I was actually wondering if it’s my multivitamins but what the hey. At this point the enzymes are going up and up so doing the herbs to try to remedy it.

Niacin (B3) in particular can cause elevated enzymes. In very high amounts it can possibly damage the liver:
https://livertox.nih.gov/Niacin.htm
If you are talking some kind of B complex and your liver enzymes are elevated, that is another thing that you should stop... Also you should inform your doctor about any and all supplements you are taking; the majority are probably helpful or harmless, but there could be some seemingly innocent things, like niacin, that might be a red flag...

 

[kastom_lif]

Thanks for the heads up on niacin! On off-days i like to drink yerba mate for the B vitamins. Liver is healthy, though (touch wood).

 

[verticity]

Thanks for the heads up on niacin! On off-days i like to drink yerba mate for the B vitamins. Liver is healthy, though (touch wood).

Natural sources of B vitamins, such as mate, are no problem. The problems can happen with large doses of supplemental vitamins, so you are getting much larger amounts than naturally occur in food. In general, if you are consuming something in it's natural form it is fine, but if it is extracted and concentrated it might not be. e.g. Green tea is a healthy source of vitamins, but green tea extract can cause problems...
https://livertox.nih.gov/GreenTea.htm

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Natural sources of B vitamins, such as mate, are no problem. The problems can happen with large doses of supplemental vitamins, so you are getting much larger amounts than naturally occur in food. In general, if you are consuming something in it's natural form it is fine, but if it is extracted and concentrated it might not be. e.g. Green tea is a healthy source of vitamins, but green tea extract can cause problems...
https://livertox.nih.gov/GreenTea.htm

Exactly.

Recommend cutting down the niacin

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Natural sources of B vitamins, such as mate, are no problem. The problems can happen with large doses of supplemental vitamins, so you are getting much larger amounts than naturally occur in food. In general, if you are consuming something in it's natural form it is fine, but if it is extracted and concentrated it might not be. e.g. Green tea is a healthy source of vitamins, but green tea extract can cause problems...
https://livertox.nih.gov/GreenTea.htm

In general, the real thing, in its real context, is better than the isolated or extracted or synthesized thing, if only for greater bioavailability. That's why juicers aren't so great: to get the benefit of a carrot, eat a carrot. Juicing a carrot isn't as good. Just eat the damn carrot. And drink your grog.

General Rule: don't try to be clever, or lazy or think you can just throw money at things. Life isn't a trick. Just eat the damn carrot.

 

[HeadHodge]

Hey there, quick post. My liver enzymes have been off. The doctors aren’t sure if I have a gallbladder problem or not. I’ve started eating low fat vegan and that has brought the numbers down a bit. I had some testing done and won’t know the results for another week or so. I’m still drinking kava, and just doing the doctor recommended diet.

See pictures for the before and after vegan diet. Hopefully I get a straight forward answer from all these tests. Some of my friends were surprised I haven’t quit kava while I wait. The reason is that I’m not convinced kava is the cause, and it replaces about four different medications which would be more stressful to my body than kava. So for now, I continue until I have more information that tells me otherwise.

Dont know if this will be useful but this was a liver experience I had
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/liver-testing.11463/#post-132090

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

OMG you guys! I just discovered this morning that niacin can be harmful to the liver. Came on here to tell you and you all already said that LOL. I had been taking a menthylated B complex with 125 mg of niacin in it when the daily recommendation for women is 14 mg....good grief! This is probably the problem right here.

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Niacin (B3) in particular can cause elevated enzymes. In very high amounts it can possibly damage the liver:
https://livertox.nih.gov/Niacin.htm
If you are talking some kind of B complex and your liver enzymes are elevated, that is another thing that you should stop... Also you should inform your doctor about any and all supplements you are taking; the majority are probably helpful or harmless, but there could be some seemingly innocent things, like niacin, that might be a red flag...

I did tell my doctor about all the things I take, and he still couldn’t figure it out. Not the most attentive doctor I’ve ever met. I see a new doctor in December.

 

[schatz]

Good to hear, been following your thread. Let us know what you come up with and best of luck.

 

[kastom_lif]

Told my GP once i like to drink kava, he thought i meant "cava," a spanish red wine.

Doctors are only human. They do good work though, so I fully support modern medicine. We can only succeed through listening and learning. Life's a journey. Bring a strainer bag.