Kava Botany Need Help With ID On Possible Kava In Costa Rica

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

Yes Macropiper has lots of species and, true, the leaf is usually more glossy. As I learn more I do not see them as indigenous to Costa Rica so I don't know except the stalks in your photograph sure do not look like methysticum.

This leaf has absolutely no gloss to it.

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

So I went further into the jungle and found a 10-12ft plant

that if it's not Kava I don't know what else it could be.

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

I went ahead and pulled the biggest root I could find on the 12ft plant. Looks like Kava root to me. Still skeptical about putting a nice chunk in my mouth to chew on...

 

[verticity]

I don't know. There were some reports from like 20 years ago of pharma companies attempting to grow kava in Central or South America. But the only way the young plants could be there is if someone intentionally planted them.

It looks like there are various native Piper species in Central America with heart shaped leaves and similar looking stems. Aside from Piper auritum, there is Piper sanctum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_sanctum . This one actually has bumps on the stems that look similar to your pictures above :

I'm actually not clear if Piper sanctum is a synonym or subspecies of Piper auritum as this source seems to suggest:
http://gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/engl/Pipe_aur.html
but other sources don't say that:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2568524

Another one is Piper umbellatum
http://zipcodezoo.com/index.php/Piper_umbellatum
(the leaves on this one don't look right though)

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

I don't know. There were some reports from like 20 years ago of pharma companies attempting to grow kava in Central or South America. But the only way the young plants could be there is if someone intentionally planted them.

It looks like there are various native Piper species in Central America with heart shaped leaves and similar looking stems. Aside from Piper auritum, there is Piper sanctum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_sanctum . This one actually has bumps on the stems that look similar to your pictures above :
View attachment 8919

and Piper umbellatum
http://zipcodezoo.com/index.php/Piper_umbellatum

View attachment 8920

It does look a lot like Piper Sanctum now that you post that photo. After some research it seems that Piper Sanctum although not true Kava does have kavalactones and it can be ingested for pain.

 

[The Kap'n]

If you look closely on the leaves of the piper sanctum, it still has that classic vein in the center like piper auritum, not radiating like the one in OPs

 

[The Kap'n]

Watch the next new kavaforums member start a post titled "Help. I think someone has stolen and eaten my outdoor kava patch!"

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

Watch the next new kavaforums member start a post titled "Help. I think someone has stolen and eaten my outdoor kava patch!"

It's on my family's property so if someone is planting it there it doesn't belong to them!

 

[verticity]

Be careful, it could be from a different continent...
http://worldofblackheroes.com/2011/07/31/the-heart-shaped-herb/
"The Only people who can survive the ingesting of the herb are those of Royal Wakandan Blood or someone worthy. Those not worthy have either been poisoned by the herb or had their spirit devoured by the panther god."

 

[kasa_balavu]

Yeah that 12' plant confirms it's not kava. The stem is wrong.

As an aside, the Piper Sanctum @verticity posted from the Wikipedia page looks very similar to false kava (Piper Auritum). They must be related

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

Be careful, it could be from a different continent...
http://worldofblackheroes.com/2011/07/31/the-heart-shaped-herb/
"The Only people who can survive the ingesting of the herb are those of Royal Wakandan Blood or someone worthy. Those not worthy have either been poisoned by the herb or had their spirit devoured by the panther god."

I guess I have Royal Wakandan Blood then because I survived ingesting it, haha.

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

Yeah that 12' plant confirms it's not kava. The stem is wrong.

As an aside, the Piper Sanctum @verticity posted from the Wikipedia page looks very similar to false kava (Piper Auritum). They must be related

I'm thinking it's Piper Sanctum, which if it is it's still a plant medicine and does contain kavalactones.

 

[verticity]

I'm thinking it's Piper Sanctum, which if it is it's still a plant medicine and does contain kavalactones.

It apparently does:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/np0401260
and has been used medicinally
http://www.tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Piper+sanctum
It also contains a bunch of other chemicals with unknown effects...

But like @Kapmcrunk says the leaves don't look quite the same. Maybe it is a related species?
This paper talks about other Piper species besides methysticum that also contain kavalactones:
http://jbcs.sbq.org.br/imagebank/pdf/2017-0289AR.pdf

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I wouldn't recommend anyone consume an unspecified plant with unknown chemicals at unknown doses, but...I would absolutely love to hear an experience report if some dirty hippie just couldn't help but whip up a batch as if it were regular kava.

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

I wouldn't recommend anyone consume an unspecified plant with unknown chemicals at unknown doses, but...I would absolutely love to hear an experience report if some dirty hippie just couldn't help but whip up a batch as if it were regular kava.

Hahahaha, I didn't mind chewing on it a tad to see if it had any kavalactones, which it does, but no way I would trust brewing a full batch before 100% ID.

 

[kasa_balavu]

I wouldn't recommend anyone consume an unspecified plant with unknown chemicals at unknown doses, but...I would absolutely love to hear an experience report if some dirty hippie just couldn't help but whip up a batch as if it were regular kava.

I have an entire hillside of Piper Auritum. I could dry some and send it over if you'd like to be a guinea pig

This might even be a serious offer.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I have an entire hillside of Piper Auritum. I could dry some and send it over if you'd like to be a guinea pig

This might even be a serious offer.

I posted a thread much like this one a couple years ago when I thought I found kava in Orange County California, which unfortunately turned out to be Piper Auritum of course. So I guess I already have my own source for that junk. In fact, I think your suggestion to me when I found it back then was "kill it with fire!!"

 

[Plantacious]

I wouldn't recommend anyone consume an unspecified plant with unknown chemicals at unknown doses, but...I would absolutely love to hear an experience report if some dirty hippie just couldn't help but whip up a batch as if it were regular kava.

Hahahaha, I didn't mind chewing on it a tad to see if it had any kavalactones, which it does, but no way I would trust brewing a full batch before 100% ID.

Why not do it the standard way ?
Find and catch a rat on that farm, put him in a cage and force-feed him the plant, and monitor the results

 

[ShawnTheDirtyHippie]

Why not do it the standard way ?
Find and catch a rat on that farm, put him in a cage and force-feed him the plant, and monitor the results

I'm personally vegan so catching a force feeding a rat is out of the question, haha.

 

[kasa_balavu]

In fact, I think your suggestion to me when I found it back then was "kill it with fire!!"

Oh yeah, I remember that discussion. The patch of false kava on my hillside has almost doubled since I last saw it. Fire doen't work once it's this big

I'm personally vegan so catching a force feeding a rat is out of the question, haha.

One of the legends/origin stories of kava is that a rat was seen behaving strangely after chewing on the root of a kava plant. Force may not be necessary