Only a couple of weeks into trying Kava and have some questions, so please help a newster out

[Fantafyren]

So I used to be both a junkie and and alcoholic for 8 years, but I finally got sober back in May. Then this December I almost relapsed, but decided to order a shit ton of different nootropics and down a bunch of alcohol free beverages just so I can "Relapse" without relapsing. You know snorting L-Theanine, parachuting GABA and other dumb stuff.

But anyways, that wasn't my question, just some backstory. During this period I really started liking Kava and felt like it mellowed me out for a bit. See I have schizoaffective bipolar type, so now, whenever my paranoia would start acting up or I would get hallucinations or smth I would make a batch of kava (the grinder method) and it would help me out a lot. At least better than my shitty pn Olanazapine.

This story is starting to become long. Sorry about that. I'm almost done. Now, I have been drinking 4-5 cups of kava a week for about the last 2 weeks, and I just read somewhere that coconut milk and other liquids high on fat can help extract more kavalactones from the powder, and make your drink severely stronger. So I thought this to myself: I know some people re-use kava powder, but I've always just thrown it out after my first use. But what If you take the wet powder from your first use, add in a bit of the dry powder, use a small whisk or something similar to make it more powder-y again, and then lastly just pour in some coconut milk and let it sit in the fridge until your next use. Couldn't that in theory make the second batch just as strong at the first one?

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb idea, I'm very new to drinking Kava

& Thank you very much for reading all of this, if you got this far!

 

[Groggy]

But what If you take the wet powder from your first use, add in a bit of the dry powder, use a small whisk or something similar to make it more powder-y again, and then lastly just pour in some coconut milk and let it sit in the fridge until your next use. Couldn't that in theory make the second batch just as strong at the first one?

Howdy, welcome to KF! Your idea is almost spot on, except add the coconut milk at the very end as it will likely potentiate it to some degree. You can do a second and third wash by adding a bit of extra powder on the first wash and others or not, with the difference being that initial amount will get washed out faster.

 

[Zaphod]

So I used to be both a junkie and and alcoholic for 8 years, but I finally got sober back in May. Then this December I almost relapsed, but decided to order a shit ton of different nootropics and down a bunch of alcohol free beverages just so I can "Relapse" without relapsing. You know snorting L-Theanine, parachuting GABA and other dumb stuff.

But anyways, that wasn't my question, just some backstory. During this period I really started liking Kava and felt like it mellowed me out for a bit. See I have schizoaffective bipolar type, so now, whenever my paranoia would start acting up or I would get hallucinations or smth I would make a batch of kava (the grinder method) and it would help me out a lot. At least better than my shitty pn Olanazapine.

This story is starting to become long. Sorry about that. I'm almost done. Now, I have been drinking 4-5 cups of kava a week for about the last 2 weeks, and I just read somewhere that coconut milk and other liquids high on fat can help extract more kavalactones from the powder, and make your drink severely stronger. So I thought this to myself: I know some people re-use kava powder, but I've always just thrown it out after my first use. But what If you take the wet powder from your first use, add in a bit of the dry powder, use a small whisk or something similar to make it more powder-y again, and then lastly just pour in some coconut milk and let it sit in the fridge until your next use. Couldn't that in theory make the second batch just as strong at the first one?

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb idea, I'm very new to drinking Kava

& Thank you very much for reading all of this, if you got this far!

Not dumb at all. If you can extract a bit more from the second or third wash by adding some milk give it a go. Personally I like my 2nd and 3rd washes to be more mellow. The first wash is to get me going the the 2nd through 100th is to maintain without hitting the cross-eyed nausea stage so I like to go lighter after the first. That said kava can get funky quick outside the fridge so if your going t let it sit I would recommend fridge and an air tight container.

 

[KavaOkie]

Hey so honestly I was on these forums back in 2018 and had a couple months journey with Kava to help me quit drinking alcohol every night. Unfortunately, I went back to drinking and did so continually and then when cannabis became legal here where I live added that to my daily intake. All that to say in 2020 I had a nervous breakdown which became my road back to sobriety and learning I needed mental health meds for severe depression as well. All that to say I came back to Kava a couple of weeks ago and only do it between Fri-Sun and I never miss taking my mental health meds. For me taking my meds is a must. I will never stop taking them, and I will never go back to drinking alcohol or cannabis or anything else like that. All that being said as far as Kava is concerned and utilizing what is there, my own routine is as follows. I have an aluball, and I add the 2 tablespoons to it and do a first shake in my water bottle in about 400-500ml of water.I shake it up a good minute or 2 and then give it about 10 minutes to settle. From there I down the whole mixture and then add water back to the original ball that still has the same Kava that I have pulled that first drink from. From there the process is the same of shaking it up and giving it time to settle. And for good measure I will generally do a third wash of the same of what’s left using less and less water from the first wash. That has worked for me, helps me to use less Kava, and helps me to space out the time between Kava intake so that I don’t upset my stomach from taking too much too fast. Then I will empty that first 2 tablespoons, add a new 2 tablespoons and start the process over again. I work in the mental field and have some idea of what you are going through and just wish you the best. And as I will tell anyone if you or anyone you know ever get to a place where things in life are too much call 988. Hope this helps.

 

[Orz[EST]]

Hey. Discuss your olanzapine dose with doctor. It may need fine tuning. Too much can be too much.

Cautionary note on kava. Stimulant kava + caffeine can counteract sleep. Sleeplesness is warning symptom with bipolar.

IDK about pharmacological liver interaction of olanzapine and kava. Would need at least
literature search. Maybe they impede or strengthen each other.

Anyway, if you have shiteloads of supplements against addiction and mood swings then read about n-acetylcysteine, CBD and agmatine and pick your poison.

Any of these is toxic to liver and veer on the antitoxic side of things.

 

[Orz[EST]]

I'd deep freeze kava if I'd have to store it. It has great surface area and is starchy. Little guys would not leave the opportunity unused...

 

[Krunkmeister]

Hey so honestly I was on these forums back in 2018 and had a couple months journey with Kava to help me quit drinking alcohol every night. Unfortunately, I went back to drinking and did so continually and then when cannabis became legal here where I live added that to my daily intake. All that to say in 2020 I had a nervous breakdown which became my road back to sobriety and learning I needed mental health meds for severe depression as well. All that to say I came back to Kava a couple of weeks ago and only do it between Fri-Sun and I never miss taking my mental health meds. For me taking my meds is a must. I will never stop taking them, and I will never go back to drinking alcohol or cannabis or anything else like that. All that being said as far as Kava is concerned and utilizing what is there, my own routine is as follows. I have an aluball, and I add the 2 tablespoons to it and do a first shake in my water bottle in about 400-500ml of water.I shake it up a good minute or 2 and then give it about 10 minutes to settle. From there I down the whole mixture and then add water back to the original ball that still has the same Kava that I have pulled that first drink from. From there the process is the same of shaking it up and giving it time to settle. And for good measure I will generally do a third wash of the same of what’s left using less and less water from the first wash. That has worked for me, helps me to use less Kava, and helps me to space out the time between Kava intake so that I don’t upset my stomach from taking too much too fast. Then I will empty that first 2 tablespoons, add a new 2 tablespoons and start the process over again. I work in the mental field and have some idea of what you are going through and just wish you the best. And as I will tell anyone if you or anyone you know ever get to a place where things in life are too much call 988. Hope this helps.

No need to let it settle. You actually want to shake it before drinking. And get another aluball and use 2.

 

[KavaOkie]

No need to let it settle. You actually want to shake it before drinking. And get another aluball and use 2.

I feel you Krunk. I had the 2 aluballs in the past. My goal this time isn’t to get as “Krunk” as I might have wanted to in the past. I’m a lot more comfortable with to just taking it easy. Either way I could be wrong, but I feel like letting it settle after shaking has worked good for me.

 

[The Kap'n]

IDK about pharmacological liver interaction of olanzapine and kava. Would need at least
literature search. Maybe they impede or strengthen each other.

Friendly suggestion. You might want to use the phrase "Pharmacokinetic interaction" here instead of "liver interaction". The phrase "liver interaction" may imply intrinsic toxicity regarding kava, and science does not support that.

With that in mind, there is a possibility of Olanzapine metabolism being slowed by kavalactones. The only data that exists in regards to human pharmacokinetics have shown a distinct drop in enzymatic CYP1A2 levels. Now, without knowing the KM and KD values for these compounds we can't say for sure which would be displaced by which. It could be that olanzapine has much stronger affinity for CYP1A2 and kicks kavalactones off without any apparent effect, or it could be that kavalactones have a higher KD value and could kick off olanzapine. I would put my money on olanzapine being stronger, and there being few if any effects, but I'm not a doctor. Always best to consult with one if possible.

 

[Groggy]

This thread took a turn from the OP, does anyone know what the OP asked?

 

[Michael Nielsen]

Since kava is rather expensive, 2 or 3 washes are done to get value for money.
I don't add any new kava to 2 or 3 washes.
Kava that you don't drink within 3 days i do recommend that you store in the freezer.
As icecubes is conviniant .

 

[Orz[EST]]

Friendly suggestion. You might want to use the phrase "Pharmacokinetic interaction" here instead of "liver interaction".

Yes. Intended meaning.

 

[Orz[EST]]

In *one* study, kava did not significantly reduce cyp1a2

Ref:
doi: 10.1016/j.clpt.2005.01.009

 

[Orz[EST]]

Kava that you don't drink within 3 days i do recommend that you store in the freezer.

I would think 3 days is already pushing it but I am a bit paranoid about spoiled food issues

 

[The Kap'n]

In *one* study, kava did not significantly reduce cyp1a2

Ref:
doi: 10.1016/j.clpt.2005.01.009

Isn't that an odd one? Thank goodness for the work of Gurley et al., though. He pretty much seals the deal on pgp and cyp3a4 with kava, 2D6 as well. Human pharmacokinetics make all the difference vs in vitro.

 

[Fantafyren]

Hey so honestly I was on these forums back in 2018 and had a couple months journey with Kava to help me quit drinking alcohol every night. Unfortunately, I went back to drinking and did so continually and then when cannabis became legal here where I live added that to my daily intake. All that to say in 2020 I had a nervous breakdown which became my road back to sobriety and learning I needed mental health meds for severe depression as well. All that to say I came back to Kava a couple of weeks ago and only do it between Fri-Sun and I never miss taking my mental health meds. For me taking my meds is a must. I will never stop taking them, and I will never go back to drinking alcohol or cannabis or anything else like that. All that being said as far as Kava is concerned and utilizing what is there, my own routine is as follows. I have an aluball, and I add the 2 tablespoons to it and do a first shake in my water bottle in about 400-500ml of water.I shake it up a good minute or 2 and then give it about 10 minutes to settle. From there I down the whole mixture and then add water back to the original ball that still has the same Kava that I have pulled that first drink from. From there the process is the same of shaking it up and giving it time to settle. And for good measure I will generally do a third wash of the same of what’s left using less and less water from the first wash. That has worked for me, helps me to use less Kava, and helps me to space out the time between Kava intake so that I don’t upset my stomach from taking too much too fast. Then I will empty that first 2 tablespoons, add a new 2 tablespoons and start the process over again. I work in the mental field and have some idea of what you are going through and just wish you the best. And as I will tell anyone if you or anyone you know ever get to a place where things in life are too much call 988. Hope this helps.

Thanks, but I live in Denmark, and right now the public psychiatric district is pretty dogshit and under funded unfortunately. It took me getting a psychosis finally getting my doctors appointment about increasing the dosage of my new antipsychotic (Aripiprazole). They started me in the absolute smallest dose to check for allergies and other reactions, and then i was supposed to get a new appointment 2 weeks after to increase my doseage by 4x. That appointment was supposed to happen back in June 2023. I just got it here in January 2024.....

 

[Orz[EST]]

Aripiprazole I have read about. Sounds good on paper, does not kill whole dopamine system and should be more suitable for negative symptoms than many others and less dangerous than olanzapine.

 

[Vuniwai]

There are various ways to increase the potency of Kava. You can make it using warm but not too hot water. If you cant get your hands into it, its too hot. Kavalactones are in the oils and warm water helps release these. Thats also why it is recommended to make kava using the traditional method of kneading and working the kava to get it to give up its goodness. Adding some whole milk or coconut milk which are high in fat cells also works, since the kavalactones bind to fat cells, so its also good for fast absorption. I would think a fella in your situation would also benefit from the process of making the kava traditionally. It is meditative and helps relax the mind with focus. I would also suggest that you research the kavalactone profile that you want, every kava is different and has different properties and effects. Once you understand how each kavalactone works you will be able to find the right kava......... have fun and experiment. Sounds like a good mission for a while, the benefits will be rewarding.