Perplexed by Tudei Controversy

[kasa_balavu]

I bought 11 Year Waka

11 Year waka

Can we please stop calling it this?
There is no evidence whatsoever that a noble kava can acquire tudei characteristics with age. If a kava is noble at 5 years old, it will still be noble at 20.

If @Kalm with Kava starts selling 11 or 12 or 15 year old waka tomorrow, you can bet that it will be noble.

What you are all referring to is a very specific batch of kava from a very specific vendor. Please call it BKH 11 Year Waka.

 

[HeadHodge]

Without including potential consequences of the choices given (as above), this is not a "guideline" at all.

And btw, so far you have not addressed any of my very direct answers to your points, but rather raised new objections with different angles. I think you've got all the info you need now, and should review and address the specifics that have already been provided. That might enable us to actually move forward, if that is your real goal.

For the record all I did was describe an easy way to avoid most tudei without the need for testing. It is not 100% foolproof, but I'll call it a guideline if I want to. One would have thought you would find that to be something useful (i.e. how to avoid buying tudei). The other thing is that I'm not a great fan of group think, it makes feel like a Lemming. I prefer to have the freedom to discuss tudei as much as I like without being branded some sort of heretic. This is a discussion forum after all. So if you think enough has been said on the topic, then just stop talking. Lastly the only other thing I was looking for was some valid raw data from you or anyone else that I can use to include as information in our product database. I admit to changing tacts and angles, because no matter how I ask you, I can't get any solid data from you. So after all this, I'm pretty much left with exactly what I started with (not much).

 

[HeadHodge]

You can call it a "guideline on how to avoid two day" if you like, but in fact the first three are actually a good way to FIND two day.

Your prior request for "data" was during a disagreement over whether chemotype indicates nobility, and you were seeking more examples to support your position. Understandably I don't have any, or I might be in agreement with you, lol. If you want information to include in a product database, that is probably different. I doubt you want actual "raw" data, i.e. spectral and HPLC files containing un-integrated output, so please let me know what you do want.

You're right I guess I diidn't mean 'raw'. I'm looking for kava test result information more detailed than whether it's Yellow or Orange. I'm looking for things like the specific percentages of kfl for each major lactone, not just it's chemotype. I'm looking for the test results of things that are in the product that you consider harmful i.e. FKB FKC FKH or whatever. I don't have an exhaustive list because I'm just a database administrator, not a scientist. So I am just groping around asking questions with the hopes of getting something useful. I would say the most useful thing I've received so far is @Henry's buying decision tree. I found that to be informative.

 

[HeadHodge]

.... but in fact the first three are actually a good way to FIND two day.

Well at least you finally admit it's 'good'.

 

[Megan]

Can we please stop calling it this?
There is no evidence whatsoever that a noble kava can acquire tudei characteristics with age. If a kava is noble at 5 years old, it will still be noble at 20.

If @Kalm with Kava starts selling 11 or 12 or 15 year old waka tomorrow, you can bet that it will be noble.

What you are all referring to is a very specific batch of kava from a very specific vendor. Please call it BKH 11 Year Waka.

?? It's called 11 Year Waka. That is why I call it that. No one else is selling a kava called 11 Year Waka that I know of? I know that it is a vague name, but that's something to take up with BKH. I understand what you are saying but for the purpose of this convo we all know we are talking about the product called 11 year waka sold by Bula Kava House.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

?? It's called 11 Year Waka. That is why I call it that. No one else is selling a kava called 11 Year Waka that I know of? I know that it is a vague name, but that's something to take up with BKH. I understand what you are saying but for the purpose of this convo we all know we are talking about the product called 11 year waka sold by Bula Kava House.

I think his point is that in Fiji "11 year waka" simply means "11 year roots". We all know what it is in the context of our forum, but what if one day BKH stops selling it and new members do not associate this product with BKH? They will see mentions of "waka" on other websites (e.g. Kalm with Kava's Fiji Loa Waka) and might think there is something wrong with products containing "waka"..

 

[Megan]

I think his point is that in Fiji "11 year waka" simply means "11 year roots". We all know what it is in the context of our forum, but what if one day BKH stops selling it and new members do not associate this product with BKH? They will see mentions of "waka" on other websites (e.g. Kalm with Kava's Fiji Loa Waka) and might think there is something wrong with products containing "waka"..

True that

 

[HeadHodge]

.....And remember, if you're pro-two day, you're anti-kava!

Don't worry, I'll totally be on board after I complete my next 100 re-programming sessions.

NOTE: I removed the Hari Krishna video, because I had them mistaken for Hare Krishna the founder of the reprogramming centers.

 

[HeadHodge]

...but what if one day BKH stops selling it and new members do not associate this product with BKH?...

They are going to stop selling 11-Year Waka?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[HeadHodge]

They are going to stop selling 11 Year Waka?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Oh that's right, next year it will be 12-Year Waka. So the 11-Year Waka name will be available again.
Whew, I was really sweating for a minute there.

 

[verticity]

Oh that's right, next year it will be 12-Year Waka. So the 11-Year Waka name will be available again.
Whew, I was really sweating for a minute there.

I think that milestone has already passed, actually.

 

[verticity]

You guys... 14 pages... I can't read the whole thing, so I have nothing useful to say here. Why then am I even saying anything? No idea.

 

[HeadHodge]

You guys... 14 pages... I can't read the whole thing, so I have nothing useful to say here. Why then am I even saying anything? No idea.

There is really only one thing to say: If you're for tudei you're against kava.
(Repeat 50 times between each shell)

 

[Edward]

Come on... you do know it's illegal to export tudei don't you? Knowing this it should be obvious, there are NO tudei kava's available for sale. Simple logic there ;-)

 

[violet]

Illegal to export from just Vanuatu, for now, unless other laws have changed and I missed it somewhere. Kava exported from Vanuatu was always supposed to have been noble. While Tongans were usually a safe bet to be noble, PNG kavas are often tudei and Fijiain kavas used to sometimes go either way.

 

[Edward]

Fair enough, thank you for setting me straight.

 

[HeadHodge]

Illegal to export from just Vanuatu, for now, unless other laws have changed and I missed it somewhere. Kava exported from Vanuatu was always supposed to have been noble. While Tongans were usually a safe bet to be noble, PNG kavas are often tudei and Fijiain kavas used to sometimes go either way.

Another good simple 'guideline' for selecting your kava without testing.

 

[HeadHodge]

Illegal to export from just Vanuatu, for now, unless other laws have changed and I missed it somewhere. Kava exported from Vanuatu was always supposed to have been noble. While Tongans were usually a safe bet to be noble, PNG kavas are often tudei and Fijiain kavas used to sometimes go either way.

You gave me a thought...
I wonder how diffficult it would be to take my handy dandy product guide and associate each product with the region of origin? I know it's possible, just wondering how hard it would be.

If you use my patent pending copyrighted system of placing the first 3 digits a products chemotype on the package, you will easily be able to see and choose kava that not only gives you the effects that you want but will help you decide which ones to avoid (this information was compiled from various places including @Deleted User's web site):

254 KDC Powdered Kava Root 254361 Orange
254 BKH Koniak 254613 Orange
254 HKC Tuday 254631 Orange
254 KKF Kava Root Plus 254631 Orange

245 NAH Solomon 245361 Orange
245 Boroguru-245613
245 Olitao Emae 245631
245 Melomelo Ambae 245361
245 GKE Malekula Magic 245361
245 GKE Pentecost Pride 245361
245 NAH White Sands 245361 Yellow
245 NAH Wow 245361 Yellow
245 GHK Boroguru 245631 Yellow
254 Sese Pentecost 245631
254 Ge vemea Vanua Lava 245631

425 GKE Tanna Marang 425316
425 Borogoru Maewo 425361

241 KWK Boronguru 241563 Yellow
241 KWK Kalm with Kava 241563

243 Poivota Santo 243561
243 GKE Tanna Kaolik 243561

246 Borogu-246531
246 Pualiu Tongoa 246531
246 Palarasul Santo 246531
246 Palasa Santo 246531
246 Amon Tanna 246513
246 Asiyai Aneityum 246531
246 BirSul Santo 246531
246 Ge wiswisket Gaua 246513
246 Naga miwok Vanua Lava 246351
246 Gegusug Gaua 246531
246 Bir Kar Santo 246513
246 Leay Tanna 246351
246 Melmel Pentecost 246531
246 BHK Boroguru-245613
246 GHK Boroguru 245631 Yellow
246 BHK Borogu-246531
246 BKH 11 Year Waka 246531 O
246 GHK Honokane Iki 246513 Yellow
246 GHK Nene 246513 Yellow
264 GHK Ava Lea 264531 Yellow

423 BKH Nambawan 423165 Yellow
423 Borogu Pentecost 423561
423 Kelai Epi 423516
423 Pia Tanna 423516
423 Puariki Tongoa 423156
423 GHK HanaKapi'ai-423651
423 Silese Malekula 423651

426 BHK Melo Melo-426135
426 Miela Emae 426351
426 Paliment Emae 426351
426 GHK Mapulehu 426513 Yellow
426 GHK Hiwa 426513 Yellow
426 GHK Nene 426531 Yellow
426 GHK Moi 426531 Yellow
426 Biyai Aneityum 426531
426 KWK Pouni Ono (Tongan) 426531 Yellow
426 Urukara Santo 426531
426 Ahouia Tanna 426531
426 Bula Kava House Melo Melo-Either 426135

461 GHK Mahakea-461235
462 GHK Papa Kea-462351
462 GHK Mapulehu-462531
462 GHK Hiwa-462351
462 GHK Kumakua-462351
462 GHK Opihikao-462531
462 GHK Papa'ele'ele-462351

463 GHK Pana'ewa-463251
461 GHK Papa Ele Ele Pu'u Pu'uU-463251
461 GHK Honokane Iki-463251
461 GHK Mo'I Instant-463251
461 GHK Nene-463251

BHK Fu'u-465213
Bula Kava House Fu’u-465213