Prices going up again

[___]

I've been skeptical of the multiple washes idea so what I did was save all my kava from the past week and used it to make a second batch of kava today. I figured even if it's 10% as potent if the multiple wash theory is right and I had 7-10 times as much it'd be like a normal dose right? I've seen people say it works better to add in some fresh kava to a second wash, but then that makes me question the idea of multiple washes. You could add fresh kava to sawdust and get effects but that wouldn't mean they were coming from the sawdust in any significant way.

So today I had it. I did a second and third wash and mixed them together before drinking. To my surprise I did get noticeable effects (using 10 times as much kava as I would with fresh kava and just "noticeable," mind you), but I had much worse dizziness and nasuea than normal. It was like when I've drank a massive amount of kava, but with only a tiny amount of the positive benefits. That puts me back at not wanting to do multiple washes. I know, mix it with first wash kava, but that's telling me to mix something that makes me feel crappy with something I like. It's not worth it and I'd rather avoid the one that gives me a bad experience, even if it means having kava less often.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience? Do pacific islanders ever do multiple washes or is that one of those weird things we started doing once it was exported?

Edit: This is all assuming an efficient extraction where I'm getting as much as possible out of the first wash.

 

[gork]

Wow, this thread kind of went all over the place. I didn't really mean to make this a starter for a bunch of complaints and aggression towards/between vendors but it looks like there's also some valuable talk thrown in here too.

Hmmm Well. Like someone else pointed out (Deleted User01). People are a lot more sensetive to costs than maybe even they realize. Kava can easily end up on that list. At somepoint it's good to say. I am not willing to spend more than 25 or 30 per 1/2 pound of this stuff, and let vendors know that. Because when you account for shipping that's easily 35-40, and that'll add up quickly.
It's been my observation a few vendors read pretty arrogant and cocky. Going on how their stuff is the best and giving all kinds of pretty technical reasons why. So saying to them wait a second here! That's not ok and you charge through the noes! We can vote with our wallet.
Some amount of that is helpful because when do people say: wait no for something we enjoy we will not spend more than a certain amount. As then the vendors can see oh. well we can't keep ratcheting up costs.

I'll just say it america is having a insecurities, and costs of living (very braudly) in practically every city is going up, and pay may not be.
So in other words some of it is probably going to be people saying : wait a second here! we have to budget etc. And spending more and more on this stuff is a bad idea!

Some more good may come from it.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I've been skeptical of the multiple washes idea so what I did was save all my kava from the past week and used it to make a second batch of kava today. I figured even if it's 10% as potent if the multiple wash theory is right and I had 7-10 times as much it'd be like a normal dose right? I've seen people say it works better to add in some fresh kava to a second wash, but then that makes me question the idea of multiple washes. You could add fresh kava to sawdust and get effects but that wouldn't mean they were coming from the sawdust in any significant way.

So today I had it. I did a second and third wash and mixed them together before drinking. To my surprise I did get noticeable effects (using 10 times as much kava as I would with fresh kava and just "noticeable," mind you), but I had much worse dizziness and nasuea than normal. It was like when I've drank a massive amount of kava, but with only a tiny amount of the positive benefits. That puts me back at not wanting to do multiple washes. I know, mix it with first wash kava, but that's telling me to mix something that makes me feel crappy with something I like. It's not worth it and I'd rather avoid the one that gives me a bad experience, even if it means having kava less often.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience? Do pacific islanders ever do multiple washes or is that one of those weird things we started doing once it was exported?

Edit: This is all assuming an efficient extraction where I'm getting as much as possible out of the first wash.

This is the first report I've heard about dizziness and nausea from later washes, I'm real sorry that happened to you. Probably best to give it a miss, then, you don't want that.

FWIW, in my many washes, and I do 6, and sometimes 7 and rarely 8, I make each shell from each wash of equal strength, that's part of the point, "standardization of dosage" wherever possible, so I have more control over things. They will have, depending on their "generation" some different effects in their profile, later washes being lighter and headier in general, and I believe this is because the heavier KL's are perhaps the first to be coaxed from the root, perhaps because of physical location where they sit on the waka root itself, with those other 12 KL's either in a different physical location on the root, perhaps deeper in, and/or requiring additional maceration to release them.

So I guess multiple washes aren't for everybody, but I think for most people they can be a way of getting more value for the money they spend on root, plus some different experiences they might be otherwise missing out on.

But you don't want dizziness or nausea. Kava should feel good, all good.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

vendors' profit margins are arguably much worse today than a few years ago. Many vendors have actually absorbed much of the price increase of kava, just to keep going. Vendors aren't sitting in their lounge saying to themselves "let's keep ratcheting up costs". Instead, they see the cost of everything around them increase (most notably kava) and try to their best in the new circumstances.
It's pretty obvious that vendors aren't happy that they have to pay more for kava. Everyone realises that the current prices might be discouraging both new and experienced drinkers. But that's the current situation in this market. It's sad that this means that you might no longer be able to afford kava, but this really is something beyond your vendors' control.

I think it's like any other binary economic question, you can make more money or spend less or both. With kava you can make more money to buy the same amount of kava or make the root you have go further, or both. I think we are only barely beginning to scratch the surface on exploiting potential efficiencies in kava prep. Cheap abundance, as with any commodity, lends itself to wastefulness in the early days. Then when it gets pricier, people look to more efficiencies in production and consumption and eventually, substitutes.

 

[___]

If no one else has ever had the experience then I'm inclined to think it could have been a coincidence rather than something kava related and to keep experimenting with it.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

If no one else has ever had the experience then I'm inclined to think it could have been a coincidence rather than something kava related and to keep experimenting with it.

I'd be inclined to take your experiences as genuine and real and happening for actual reasons that one should be concerned about. I think that is true for most people in most circumstances when they report problems with whatever it is. People tend to be pretty accurate observers of their own experience. We might have trouble understanding reasons or explanations, I know I do, but I find people's self-reports tend to be very accurate and I sure hate to dismiss them without a really good reason.

IOW, nah, I think there's something about multiple washes that doesn't agree with you, or makes things worse than first washes, maybe there is some KL, or two or three, that is in the other 12 that is causing your nausea and multiple washes getting past those first 6 that makes the problem KL's more prominent in the grog? Just guessing here. No real idea what could be the cause here, but the phenomenon is real.

 

[___]

Well I have no doubt that my experience is real, but kava isn't necessarily a more likely explanation than something I didn't know to think about just becuase kava was what was on my mind at the time. I've actually ended up feeling a bit strange the last couple days (with no more second wash kava) so I may have a nutritional issue or a cold or something going on. I think I'm going to lay off the kava until I feel better in general and then repeat the 100% second/third wash experiment to see to see if I have the same experience. If I have the same experience twice then I won't keep messing with it.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Well I have no doubt that my experience is real, but kava isn't necessarily a more likely explanation than something I didn't know to think about just becuase kava was what was on my mind at the time. I've actually ended up feeling a bit strange the last couple days (with no more second wash kava) so I may have a nutritional issue or a cold or something going on. I think I'm going to lay off the kava until I feel better in general and then repeat the 100% second/third wash experiment to see to see if I have the same experience. If I have the same experience twice then I won't keep messing with it.

sounds like a plan..... Hope you feel better soon.