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Kava FAQ Should I drink Tudei or Noble kava?

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Tudei or not tudei that is the question

Some people say that it is okay to drink tudei kava but just use less and watch out because it is so potent. The problem with this statement is tudei kava was never used as a recreational kava. in Vanuatu nobody considers tudei to be a recreational kava or kava that anyone would drink for pleasure. People know the stuff is vile and while it can be used for ceremonies or medicine, that is the extent of it's use. That means your not supposed to drink it the way we or for thousands of years the people of the Pacific Islands drink kava. They always used 100% pure Noble kava, no mixes of tudei with noble, no tudei kava drinking but just using less water or root, they did not drink it. They only use Noble kava as a recreational kava for every day use , they would sometimes use tudei for ceremonial purposes or for medicine and in both cases the tudei was not taken in the amounts they normally take Noble kava, certainly not in the amount that kava vendors recommend or tudei kava drinkers here do. It was so much less that you would not get any of the effect they drink the noble kava for, nor any of the bad side effect.
Also remember the kava we have today came from the farmers selecting just the right kava from somatic mutations of wild kava, they chose the kava with the best effects, the ones that did not make you vomit or give you head aches or other bad effects, the simply chose the noble kava with good effects. Why wouldn't they, why wouldn't anyone, we all want pleasant effects from kava.

It is true that tudei kava can sometimes be said to be stronger, but not in the pleasant effects. It can feel more intoxicating but far less enjoyable, and with far greater unwanted effects. The Noble kava and the chemotype can tell us a lot about if the kava is Noble or tudei but the chemotype should not be the sole proof you need for that determination. The reason is that if you only have the chemotype without the actual percentage of each kavalactone then you will not be able to look to see how much of each kavalactone there is. For example if you have a chemotype that has kavalactone #5 in the second position most would think it is a tudei kava but if you look at the actual percentage of kavalactones you can tell how much of the #5 there is. A noble kava that happens to have a chemotype with #5 in the second position might have only 1% or less of that kavalactone but a tudei kava will have much more maybe %5 or more depending on the variety. Remember the people who grew kava would select the ones with the best effects and this does not mean that there was only one, there was many and each had a different chemotype but each had Noble effects, they would not cause the unwanted effects of the tudei kava.

As we have seen in a recent article that Alex Perrottet wrote is an important industry, it has in fact been a industry for over 100 years. This industry was damaged by Non-noble kava varieties include "high-yielding" and "two-day" kava as well as used kava called Makas and even stalk peelings, a part of the kava plant that is not supposed to be used.
Some of the German pharmaceutical companies wanted to get what ever had kavalactones in it so they could extract it and put it in there pills. This is where the problems started and the Pacific Island got hurt from it very bad economically. Now that they have a chance to sell kava again they all want to make sure the sell only the best so that this ban is not re imposed. But as some of the experts have noted it is hard to do, there is bribery going on and people who just do not care about the product they are selling, they are getting stalk peelings, makas (used kava) mixed with wood dust, tudei kava and other things from Vanuatu and even Fiji because Fiji imports large amounts of kava from Vanuatu, this will only hurt the kava producing nations again so they are taking active steps to stop this and make sure that only 100% pure Noble kava is going out of there island country. There is a Standard that will soon be put into place to ensure only good quality kava gets exported. If the kava does not meet the standard then it will not go out.
When Dr Mathias Schmidt was recently here in Hawaii with me to get kava samples for his testing he told me all about the adulteration that he saw first hand, and the exporting of tudei kava and other parts of the kava that is against the law to export. This will only damage the kava market and this is the truth. So ask yourself do we want kava? I know I do, if so we need to take a firm stance against Tudei kava and any adulterated kava. It is easy to get your kava tested by sending a sample to Truekava.com.
Keep kava pure and Noble and it will be around for a log time for all to enjoy and benefit from.

Here is quote form .vanuatu-kava-wholesaler--"In recent years, “Tudei “ kava cultivar, which were traditionally cultivated for medicinal purpose or special ceremonial drinking - but not in any way for a everyday consumption - have been planted a lot by some farmers for various reasons: higher density of the dried chips, quicker growth, higher yields, high potent." and even more value because of the higher volume and faster growing tudei kava
Notice they said in recent years, this was not the case before the kava boom in the early 90's as I have said before they had the good old day before the kava boom where it was so easy to get good high quality kava, that changed with big pharma, and we have to get back to the old ways to protect the tradition of kava.
I love the way vanuatu-kava-wholesaler put is here is there quote---"Once dry, buyers could not check, buyers did not care, the markets had no choice, so no one was really checking, no one really cared or believed of the potential danger of drinking “tudei” kava on a daily basis. Studies are now showing that they also contains a dangerous alkaloid, in a concentration up to 40% higher than “noble” kava cultivar.
"Since early this year, exporters have now the possibility of analyzing all their supplies (and exports) through spectral analysis. We have been the pioneer in using this great technology that has enable us to select the best kava producing area (high lactone, noble varieties)."

There is a big controversy about tudei kava and if we should drink it. There is even a kava website that claims to be a guru on kava and they say that Dr Lebot the foremost kava scientist has come out and said we should not drink tudei kava. Why did he say this, why does he have a stand against drinking tudei kava? Well there might be some health problems, the kava scientists are still trying to figure that out but the other reason is that he understands that for over 3000 years the people of Vanuatu does not drink tudei, they must have a reason for that. They do in fact have a reason, they know that the effects are too much for most people to handle and they know that this kava was only good for ceremonies or medicine. For the ceremonies they would make this drink from the tudei kava and they would partake of the drink, only a small drink, in very small amounts, not a big shell or several shells, it is a ceremony and the tudei kava was used strictly for that purpose not for recreational drinking like they would a Noble kava. And for the medicinal part, they would use it for things like tooth aches and they would use the inner bark of the root, they would not drink it. So you can start to see that tudei kava was never meant to be used as a recreational kava and yet that is what a lot of people are doing, that is what a lot of kava vendors are selling and saying this is such a strong kava, leading a new kava drinker to believe that it is the best choice if you want a strong kava and that is misleading and wrong, the main reason these kava vendors like to sell tudei is for the money that is all, they are not interested in the tradition of kava or the health of the consumer they are selling it to. That is a plain fact.

The same website mentioned above says this"many growers, retailers and connoisseurs in the kava community were blindsided by the emerging controversy surrounding Tudei kava strains.
This is because they only want money or they do not respect the kava tradition or the consumer drinking it. They never stopped to think or just did not care that it was never used as a drinking kava. The Ni Vanuatu, (the people of Vanuatu) do not drink it and they can not understand why we would want to drink it.
They understand that in the kava boom era there were big pharm companies that wanted kavalactones and it did not matter where the kavalactones came from, this is what started the entire mess that started the kava ban in Germany. These companies were using peelings from the stalks and tudei kava and even makas, the course fibers they would throw away.
Even more recently there was a kava supplier in Vanuatu that encouraged people to plant tudei kava so that he could sell it to China and now China has a over abundance of extract they made from tudei kava. I might note that they are having a hard time selling it because the effects is not good, even in the capsules they put there extract in. This is why the guy that was encouraging the planting of tudei kava is no longer in business, he got fired. Do we want to see that the kava ban in Europe stays lifted or do we want to get it banned again?

I will not go into all the science about tudei kava being bad to drink or safe to drink but I will bring out that in Vanuatu it is strictly against the law to sell tudei kava, or the peelings from above ground parts of any kava plant and it is even against the law to sell the makas, the hard fibers that are thrown away. The bad part is that there is little enforcement of this law at this time, another bad part is that some of the people that are in the position to let the bad illegal kava to be exported are very susceptible to bribes. Another bad thing to take into account is that since the farmers in Vanuatu depend on kava for there income and they still have some tudei kava that is growing in there kava gardens the will mix it with noble kava to water down the tudei kava so it can not be easily distinguished from the true 100% pure Noble kava. One way to make certain is through a color metric test also known as the acetone test, it will show a orange or brown color instead of a nice golden color. Another problem is that this test is hard to see smaller amounts of tudei adulteration, this basic color metric test has been refined and using scientific equipment they can see the coloration that our eyes can not see and this is how we can tell if there is any adulteration of the Noble kava with the tudei kava.
This testing can be done for free at truekava.com. It is surprising to find that out of 10 different samples only 2 or 3 will come back as pure Noble, so you can see the problem with tudei adulteration of the kava coming out of Vanuatu.
The good thing is that soon there will be a standard set in place for all the kava producing nations to adhere to and this will stop the adulteration of the noble kava, it will ensure that we get only the good kava and it will also ensure that kava will remain on the market for all to use and not be banned for problems that happen when you do not use the 3000 year old tried and true way to consume kava, the Noble way, by drinking only Noble kava.
Aloha nui loa.

Chris
 

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
Great post, Chris! I hope all new members will read it before getting their first kava. There are way too many people that seem to be falling in the marketing traps suggesting that tudei is some kind of an "elite kava" "for real kava connoiseurs". Don't trust such advertising. True veteran kava growers and very experienced kava drinkers (who LOVE strong kava) from around the Pacific would never touch this stuff.
 
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thorildor

Kava Curious
There is no doubt about that. (y) There are others that have good kava and that truly care about what there customers drink but it is clear the ones that just do not care too much. Kava is my life and I will always provide the best kava around. :hungry:
Aloha.

Chris
Is there any noble test about Mo'I?
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Hi everyone, I thought I would bump this post with some pictures. The first is of me and Dr. Mathias Schmidt, he is doing so much for the benefit of kava and he is working on the standard that will allow kava to be in the codex and to be used safely, this means no tudei kava for export or import.

The next picture is of Dr. Schmidt with a local kava expert and farmer E.J.

I hope you enjoy the pictures, aloha.

Chris
 

KeepOnKrunkin'

Kava Enthusiast
No problems whatsoever w/ HKC's Tudei so far. 'Cept for the awful taste. Elsewhere its been likened to standing behind a 4-wheeler w/ your mouth open which is putting it mildly. 2Tbl. spoons in 2 cups of water slammed w/ no straining definitely puts you in low gear.
 
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Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
No problems whatsoever w/ HKC's Tudei so far. 'Cept for the awful taste. Elsewhere its been likened to standing behind a 4-wheeler w/ your mouth open which is putting it mildly. 2Tbl. spoons in 2 cups of water slammed w/ no straining definitely puts you in low gear.
We all know about how you like tudei kava and how you bounce back and forth like a ball, but you always miss the point, tudei kava was NEVER a recreational drinking kava, it has never been used for every day drinking. Just keep drinking it every day and you will see the negative effects.
I know a prominent person in the kava community here and they were drinking tudei for a few years without knowing it and when they found out and changed to 100% pure Noble kava they told me it was like night and day. No more kava hangovers or other bad effects, they did not know what real kava was like until they got off of the tudei kava and onto the 100% pure Noble kava. You might want to stock up on the tudei kava, it will not be long before it will not be that easy to get. The evidence it undeniable and all the kava producing nations are in the same thought of agreement that tudei will not be sold, imported or exported. So keep on krunken that tudei while you can.
"Aole Tudei 'Awa"

Chris
 

KeepOnKrunkin'

Kava Enthusiast
Wrong. I said I won't be buying anymore of it because it tastes horrible. Not because of a hangover "or other bad effects". My next purchase will be some 40% kavalactone powder extract. Ok girlfriend? I have some Maui Medicinals caps made of very good to excellent "noble" powder which is better by a longshot than the tudei I got.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Wrong. I said I won't be buying anymore of it because it tastes horrible. Not because of a hangover "or other bad effects". My next purchase will be some 40% kavalactone powder extract. Ok girlfriend? I have some Maui Medicinals caps made of very good to excellent "noble" powder which is better by a longshot than the tudei I got.
No, I am right, did you forget how much you were bouncing like a ball, saying yes to tudei and then no to tudei. Girlfriend did you say???
I bet you did not know that Maui company you like so much grows Isa. I know the market and I know the people who have been in kava for a long time, that is why I can guarantee that I provide only the best 100% pure noble kava! Ok Girlfriend! Wait, your no friend of mine!
Keep bouncing like you always do!
Aloha nui loa.

Chris
 

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
@Runding Someone needs a hug, Girlfriend. Come on. Here is your hero moment. You said I was harsh for calling a hypocrite hypocritical and too new in the group to make a statement. Now your boy is insulting one of our most valuable contributing members with no supporting statements/information. Call him out. Go for it. I challenge you. This goes for anyone else that thought I was out of line with this loser of an individual. This is public school, not home school. I don't know Chris but I love this guy. He works all day with kava and still has time to come communicate with us every day! That's props right there. Who else does that?
 
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Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Someone needs a hug, Girlfriend. Come on. Here is your hero moment. You said I was harsh for calling a hypocrite hypocritical and too new in the group to make a statement. Now your boy is insulting one of our most valuable contributing members with no supporting statements/information. Call him out. Go for it. I challenge you. This goes for anyone else that thought I was out of line with this loser of an individual. This is public school, not home school. I don't know Chris but I love this guy. He works all day with kava and still has time to come communicate with us every day! That's props right there. Who else does that?
I think your right, I think @KeepOnKrunkin' does need a hug, but I will go a step further, I will give her 2 hugs everyday for tudei's. Oops I mean 2 days. :ROFLMAO: Aloha.

Chris
 
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Runding

Kava Enthusiast
@Runding Someone needs a hug, Girlfriend. Come on. Here is your hero moment. You said I was harsh for calling a hypocrite hypocritical and too new in the group to make a statement. Now your boy is insulting one of our most valuable contributing members with no supporting statements/information. Call him out. Go for it. I challenge you. This goes for anyone else that thought I was out of line with this loser of an individual. This is public school, not home school. I don't know Chris but I love this guy. He works all day with kava and still has time to come communicate with us every day! That's props right there. Who else does that?
We all know Chris is the best kava vendor and he's by far the most knowledgeable. He gets my money prior to any other vendor on the forums.

I also never said @KeepOnKrunkin' wasn't an idiot, I just felt like he was treated too harshly in the beginning. I'm not in his fan club nor have I ever been, so stop trying to continuously antagonize me. Go back to the playground.
 

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
The playground is a real place actually, a place where reality exists. I don't know how it worked at your home school but words from a dictionary describing actions that actually take place aren't considered harsh in the real world. Who do you vote for in presidential elections. Big Bird? I said nothing different than what Chris said above when you criticized me instead of your "idiot". Congrats on calling him out for the first time, instead of everyone else who was truthful about him.

They are working very hard here to establish a clean Kava culture. You can pretend you are Johnny Cochrane if you want to but I am going to support the guys who are trying to make good things happen. You're welcome, by the way.


We all know Chris is the best kava vendor and he's by far the most knowledgeable. He gets my money prior to any other vendor on the forums.

I also never said @KeepOnKrunkin' wasn't an idiot, I just felt like he was treated too harshly in the beginning. I'm not in his fan club nor have I ever been, so stop trying to continuously antagonize me. Go back to the playground.
 

Bradley666

Kava Enthusiast
Ya I agree, this forum is amazing and it needs to stay that way!
We don't need arguing at all here, kava bring PEACE so whats the point?!
We all know Chris from GHK is a BIG part of this forum, he brings tons and tons of information...as well as an amazing product line,with the most noble of kava's...and we all know and trust that he knows his shit :)
I understand why people get pissed and start name calling, but this isn't the place for it...this is a growing community and we need to set an example, and act like adults....we don't want to scare off any newbies that wana join our great forum!
So lets all get along! No more he said, she said...it doesn't matter, everyone has an opinion and can say what they will,just keep it about kava, if you like 2day kava....thats fine, 99% of us here don't want anything to do with it, so your pretty much on your own!
As steve would say, It's Noble or nothing! :)
 
D

Deleted User01

Though I am not a fan of Tuday, it is nice to have differing opinions because that's what makes for a good healthy forum. Chris has been a kava man since the 1980s and so he has very strong convictions about tuday vs noble and his arguments make sense. He also stands to lose a lot if Tuday ends up being the poster child for kava when people start getting sick and it hits the headlines (like the German Ban). Luckily, @KeepOnKrunkin' is blessed with a strong and tolerant internal system and I'm grateful for that. So I totally understand everyone's point of view.
 

Bubba Bula

krunkadelic relic
No problems whatsoever w/ HKC's Tudei so far. 'Cept for the awful taste. Elsewhere its been likened to standing behind a 4-wheeler w/ your mouth open which is putting it mildly. 2Tbl. spoons in 2 cups of water slammed w/ no straining definitely puts you in low gear.
Holy cow @KeepOnKrunkin'. You slam that stuff wood chips and all? What have you got, a cast iron digestive tract? Maybe you're part beaver? Kudos to you dude if you can drink down straight medium grind. That is amazing.
 
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