What's new

Kava Preparation Thoughts on kava preparation

Kavakavaking

OceanOfKava
Kavadude's Thoughts on Kava Preparation:
Since there is a lot of debate on what is the 'best' prep method I thought I would write up a short post explaining exactly what kava prep is actually accomplishing, and what the variables and different methods are so you can experiment for yourself. Scroll to the bottom for the short version.

The kavalactones are part of a resin within the cell walls of the kava root. So the first question is how do you get those kavalactones inside your stomach. The most obvious method is just to consume the kava root, but this is problematic because it can cause unpleasant side effects and there is the potential that you are consuming too much of the hepatotoxic compound flavokawain B. That said, some people do it, and if you choose to do it it doesn't really matter how as long as you get it down.

The traditional way of consuming kava as practiced in the Pacific Islands, and the way preferred by most members here, is to extract kava with water. Very important to note that kava is not a solution. It is not the same as if, say, you stir some salt into water. Those tasty resins are not soluble in water. This is why, in my opinion, soaking kava is pretty much pointless. It is actually an emulsion. In order to extract the kava, we must break down the cell walls of the plant and force the resin to mix with the water.

The first step in this process is grinding the root. As a rule the finer the grind the more potent it is going to be but when it gets very fine it is difficult to keep a lot of sediment out of your drink, which can add potency but cause side effects. So when you buy kava you should consider how fine of a grind you are willing to drink.

The second variable is how hot the water is. Studies have shown that using hot water aids the extraction of kavalactones. There have not been any studies done on boiling water but several forum members have done it and it's safe to say that it does not destroy the kavalactones, although it does make somehow taste worse which is impressive.

The third is how you agitate the kava. You can blend it, knead it in a strainer, or put it in a ziploc bag and roll on it with a rolling pin. Blending may also have the effect of breaking down the rootstock and effectively making the grind finer. The length of this step matters. There is a point of diminishing returns but I'd say if you are only kneading for like, three minutes, you are leaving kavalactones on the table and nobody wants that.

The fourth is the coarseness of the strainer you use. The coarser the strainer the more sediment you get but the more potent it is. Some are very fine (muslin bags), others are fairly coarse (fijian strainer bags).

A lot of members find it effective to re-use kava as well, for a second wash or even more (in my experience, the drink becomes very thin, soupy and ineffective at the third wash).

Finally, some find it helps to add fats or emulsifiers such as milk or soy lecithin to the water.

In my opinion, the amount of water used is not so important as long as you use enough to effectively knead, roll, or blend the kava, and the less water you use the grittier the kava will be but the less you will have to drink. So it's more a matter of personal taste.

To sum up, here are the things you can change to potentially get more mileage out of your kava, depending on how much sediment you are willing to tolerate and how much work you are willing to do:
- Finer grinds
- Higher water temperature
- Different prep methods and more time on prep
- Coarser strainer
- Re-using strained root multiple times
- Adding fats or emulsifiers

There is a list of techniques at http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-preparation/, feel free to add your own.

Sources: The Pacific Elixir, my own experience


Infraredz's Thoughts on Kava Preparation:
Notes:
  • My method outlines in the Kavapedia is a very simple method to get you started. I recommend that you try the traditional method and other methods listed in the kavapedia. Once you have a "feel for it" you can personalize your own preparation.
  • Other strainers can be used. Some other choices that work well for others include: "Fijian Strainers", clean t-shirts or other fabric, cotton muslin bags and double or tripled-up paint strainers. The finer the strainer, the less sediment will end up in the resulting drink but it's widely accepted that sediment increases potency. However it also can cause negative side-effects (especially in the GI) so find the right amount for yourself.
  • Regarding blenders: I purchased a $25 blender over a year ago and have left used it almost every day for that amount of time with no issues. Further, I actually don't blend in 2 minute intervals, but rather two, 3-4 min intervals and have had no issues with overheating. Your mileage might vary.
  • Almost everyone agrees kava taste better chilled or cooled so putting your bowl/mug/cup in the fridge is usually what I do.
  • There's debate about water temperatures, and while boiling water (or hot water, sub-boiling pt) are better at extracting the kavalactones, this was meant to be a bare bones, simple prep for all the newbies who can be overwhelmed (also, kava prepared with hot water tastes worse).
  • Regarding hot water, it has been proven that hot water is a better at extracting kavalactones.
  • There's also debate about using emulsifiers since kavalactones aren't water soluble and therefore must be physically agitated into a suspension. In my experience, milk, soy lecithin, and other lipids haven't had a significant increase in potency and they add more viscosity to the resulting kava which can already be very thick and hard to stomach. I'd recommend not worrying about it in the beginning.
  • Traditional preparations, where you "massage" and "knead" the kava will be more potent, without a doubt. That being said, in my experience, you would only need [for example] 6 tbsp instead of 7 tbsp. This difference does add up over time, though.

Infraredz: Boiling Water Does Not Destroy Kavalactones
"About three years ago, a test (using HPLC) was done on boiling the kava beverage (~212F). Loss after a few minutes at that temperature was considered insignificant. Less than 5% of the kavalactones were lost."
[The link is broken, but the quote was from the owner of Hawaiiankava.com]

Evidence
"This one's more about special lab equipment based extraction so I can't be sure it applies here, but the graph on page 190 (and following pages) shows that, in general, the percentage of extraction increases as temperature increases. Yangonin extraction is essentially 0% until you reach boiling point"
[link seems broken to me, but you could try it: http://144.206.159.178/ft/553/42507/769267.pdf]

More Evidence
"Various authors have suggested that the two compounds isolated by Cuzent and Gobley, kavahine and methysticin, are the same and correspond to methysticin as it is known today (see figure 3.1). However, the percentage analysis of carbon (C), hydrogen (H), and oxygen (0) given by Cuzent (1861a) for kavahine 5.85% C, 5.64% H, and 28.51% 0) is closer to the composition of didromethysticin (65.21 % C, 5.84% H, 28.95 % 0) than to that of methysticin 5.69% C, 5.15% H, 29.17% 0, calculated in Lebot and Cabalion 1986). The melting point of kavahine, 120-130 C, is also nearer to that of dihyromethysticin (116-118 °C, Winzheimer 1908; 117-118 °C, Borsche and Bodenstein 1929; 118 °C, Joessang and Molho 1970) than to that of methysticin 132-135 °C, Sauer and Haensel 1967; 136-137 °C, Rasmussen et al. 1979; 139-140 °C, Borsche and Peitzsch 1929a; see also Duve 1981). The differences bserved between these figures would be easy to explain if Cuzent had actually obtained and analyzed pure syncrystals, but the 10 °C variation in the melting point of his kavahine indicates that the substance he analyzed was contaminated. Our best guess is that Cuzent's kavahine was a mixture of dihydromethysticin and methysticin."
[http://www.aldbot.com/New_Folder-1/ch3lebot.htm]

More regarding chemical structure and implications for storage:
"According to Duve and Prasad (1983), there are trends in the deterioration of the major active constituents in both dry powdered root and basal stems. Storage of the samples in screw-capped glass bottles at room temperature resulted in 26, 33 and 55% degradation of the major constituents in the roots and 24, 50 and 48% degradation in basal stems after 22, 36 and 39 months of storage, respectively. Moisture and temperature are probably the major environmental factors affecting the deterioration of dry powdered plant material. Stability of the active constituents appeared to be dependent on the chemical structure, with dihydrokavain being the least stable and methysticin the most stable (Duve and Prasad, 1983). In addition, stability improves with increasing melting point and the degree of unsaturation.

These findings suggest that more polar substances are likely to be stable at room temperature. In contrast, in non-polar molecules like dihydrokavain, the pyrone ring tends to open up to form more polar acidic components which would be readily stabilized by moisture from the storage environment. The identity of the degradation products have not been established but formation of a characteristic off-odor from the samples has been described (Duve and Prasad, 1983), which probably reflects formation of the corresponding acids from the active constituents. Further studies are, however, needed before firm recommendations can be made on storage conditions for powdered kava."

Predicted boiling points of kavalactones:

As far as I know, these are all predicted and have not actually been observed.

Boiling points:

Kavain: 432.64 °C at 760 mmHg
Dihydrokavain: 413±45.0 °C at 760 mmHg
Methysticin: 496.48 °C at 760 mmHg
Dihydromethysticin: 476.1ºC at 760 mmHg
Theres a study on a 120 sec industrial blender activative most kavatones. Ill find study.

Good post btw ty. Bulla
 
C

Christopher Daniels

Adding a little fat in the form of milk or soy lecithin was very popular in internet recipes when I started with kava around 2011-2. I believe the reasoning was because kavalactones were fat soluble, like fat-soluble vitamins, a little bit of fat would help in absorption (although just a little bit). I ordered a bottle of soy lecithin, something I had never heard of before, to add to my first kava (I was about to qualify it as first home-squeezed, but I think it was really my first kava drink ever) I took a little break from kava after the cyclones of 2015, when prices doubled, and nobody was talking about the fatty emulsifiers. And, I've never heard of any such ingredients in traditional preparations. Surely it's not entirely necessary. But I think it may be something more to it than just a meme, and I now see it mentioned by Kavadude here for the first time in a long time. Does someone have a little more to say about adding such emulsifiers? Is this difference really significant?
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
Adding a little fat in the form of milk or soy lecithin was very popular in internet recipes when I started with kava around 2011-2. I believe the reasoning was because kavalactones were fat soluble, like fat-soluble vitamins, a little bit of fat would help in absorption (although just a little bit). I ordered a bottle of soy lecithin, something I had never heard of before, to add to my first kava (I was about to qualify it as first home-squeezed, but I think it was really my first kava drink ever) I took a little break from kava after the cyclones of 2015, when prices doubled, and nobody was talking about the fatty emulsifiers. And, I've never heard of any such ingredients in traditional preparations. Surely it's not entirely necessary. But I think it may be something more to it than just a meme, and I now see it mentioned by Kavadude here for the first time in a long time. Does someone have a little more to say about adding such emulsifiers? Is this difference really significant?
I use sunflower lecithin myself. I am very intolerant to Soy, but also I still am not convinced it should actually be in our food chain.

Like Rapeseed oil, which I have been told on very good authority that it is not meant for human consumption.

And I think that lecithin does something more than we really understand as well we notice a substantial increase in potency when making cannabutter at home since using sunflower lecithin.

I think it has some potentiating properties as well as helping with the whole amount of vacation and extraction and certainly absorption of various compounds psychoactive and medicinal.

All I know is I get Super League won't off of my karma and just regular standard amounts as well well without using milk at the time which I cannot tolerate in any form anyway thank God for lecithin hey?
 

Inkbottle

Newbie
I'm new to the daily kava habit, though I've messed with it before. Last week I used a tea strainer to filter 4 tablespoons kava for my drink resulting in me feeling a bit nauseous and with super shaky and sensitive eyes; staring at screens would give me vertigo. Last night I wrapped two tablespoons in a clean bandana, making a loose bag out of the hankerchef and then dipped it in a room temp glass of water and unleaded and squeezed it for 10-15 minutes. The result was a very calm, happy and relaxing night with no side effects other than my eyes getting a little sensitive. I re-squeezed the first bag into a new glass of water and added 1 and a half more tablespoons. Out of that 3and a half spoons I had 4 glasses and a very calm, happy night.

I don't know if it was the dose, or that I slowly sipped it all night, but last night was when I finally realized kava full potential. Fuck beer.

When I get my order Saturday I will experiment with the same dose through a tea strainer to see if I get the same results, but I think there's just something to the squeezing method that the other way can't touch. Probably the act of squeezing rather than straining brings out the good stuff.

Sorry if the subject of this post was a no brainer to you old pros.
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
I'm new to the daily kava habit, though I've messed with it before. Last week I used a tea strainer to filter 4 tablespoons kava for my drink resulting in me feeling a bit nauseous and with super shaky and sensitive eyes; staring at screens would give me vertigo. Last night I wrapped two tablespoons in a clean bandana, making a loose bag out of the hankerchef and then dipped it in a room temp glass of water and unleaded and squeezed it for 10-15 minutes. The result was a very calm, happy and relaxing night with no side effects other than my eyes getting a little sensitive. I re-squeezed the first bag into a new glass of water and added 1 and a half more tablespoons. Out of that 3and a half spoons I had 4 glasses and a very calm, happy night.

I don't know if it was the dose, or that I slowly sipped it all night, but last night was when I finally realized kava full potential. Fuck beer.

When I get my order Saturday I will experiment with the same dose through a tea strainer to see if I get the same results, but I think there's just something to the squeezing method that the other way can't touch. Probably the act of squeezing rather than straining brings out the good stuff.

Sorry if the subject of this post was a no brainer to you old pros.
Sounds like you're now a citizen of Krunkville. The squeezing and kneading method predates us by a thousand years at least. They knew what they were doing back then, and it still works now. I bet if you procured yourself a dedicated kava strainer you'd be in heaven.
 

babesugarbunny

Kava Enthusiast
I use a bag for making plantbased milk, like nut milk for example. It got less fine weave than the strainers I've recivied from KWK. I'm kinda new so I don't know what is the best cloth to use. But this nutmilk-cloth I have does make fine dust exit the bag when I fill it with Kava Powder and that can't be bad, right?
10143_4 (1).jpg
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I use a bag for making plantbased milk, like nut milk for example. It got less fine weave than the strainers I've recivied from KWK. I'm kinda new so I don't know what is the best cloth to use. But this nutmilk-cloth I have does make fine dust exit the bag when I fill it with Kava Powder and that can't be bad, right?
View attachment 10488
The sediment is a plus and a minus at the same time. Most kava drinkers think about what micron size the mesh is but most nut milk bags are either vague about this and/or over 200. At the end of the day it's a personal thing. When I first started I used a metal sieve which must be about 500 microns. I got fantastic effects but a huge amount of nausea. These days I cope well with around 75 to 100 microns.
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
The sediment is a plus and a minus at the same time. Most kava drinkers think about what micron size the mesh is but most nut milk bags are either vague about this and/or over 200. At the end of the day it's a personal thing. When I first started I used a metal sieve which must be about 500 microns. I got fantastic effects but a huge amount of nausea. These days I cope well with around 75 to 100 microns.
Hi Edward. Sincerely hope you are well my friend and hope to be in touch at some point.

I have to completely agree with this what you have said above and isn't it such an irony that so many truly amazing things in life can carry such a potential downside?

Without a doubt that thick sediment stuff can really trigger the nausea for susceptible people. But boy that is certainly where a lot of the magic lies, and that is what it is all about essentially, for myself at least.

My KWK bag is like a white, non transparent sock. They sent it to me as a freebie and I was really surprised to see how different it was from the original one I purchased from KSNewZealand, which is completely transparent so I assumed that the KWK one has much smaller holes ( sorry I'm really clueless about these specs and technicalities etc ), and therefore let's less sediment through.

However I am still using my New Zealand strainer bag for my blender preparations. I guess I just want it all haha! I do struggle with nausea, but I just adore the stronger and higher buzzes of kava.
 

Piperm

Kava Curious
Just like when you make a big batch and drink shells, I like to sip my one dose in the shell because I notice more absorption in the stomach. Have you ever done this before or do you always prepare it traditional and drink shells? I basically just use a fine mesh strainer to make a micronized powder and sip it. I also like to add at least a gram of cinnamon and chew a few cloves with my kava. I know kava has similar compounds in it if you ever chewed whole root. I think it is eugenol?
 

CrunkMonk

Kava Curious
Kavadude's Thoughts on Kava Preparation:
Since there is a lot of debate on what is the 'best' prep method I thought I would write up a short post explaining exactly what kava prep is actually accomplishing, and what the variables and different methods are so you can experiment for yourself. Scroll to the bottom for the short version.

The kavalactones are part of a resin within the cell walls of the kava root. So the first question is how do you get those kavalactones inside your stomach. The most obvious method is just to consume the kava root, but this is problematic because it can cause unpleasant side effects and there is the potential that you are consuming too much of the hepatotoxic compound flavokawain B. That said, some people do it, and if you choose to do it it doesn't really matter how as long as you get it down.

The traditional way of consuming kava as practiced in the Pacific Islands, and the way preferred by most members here, is to extract kava with water. Very important to note that kava is not a solution. It is not the same as if, say, you stir some salt into water. Those tasty resins are not soluble in water. This is why, in my opinion, soaking kava is pretty much pointless. It is actually an emulsion. In order to extract the kava, we must break down the cell walls of the plant and force the resin to mix with the water.

The first step in this process is grinding the root. As a rule the finer the grind the more potent it is going to be but when it gets very fine it is difficult to keep a lot of sediment out of your drink, which can add potency but cause side effects. So when you buy kava you should consider how fine of a grind you are willing to drink.

The second variable is how hot the water is. Studies have shown that using hot water aids the extraction of kavalactones. There have not been any studies done on boiling water but several forum members have done it and it's safe to say that it does not destroy the kavalactones, although it does make somehow taste worse which is impressive.

The third is how you agitate the kava. You can blend it, knead it in a strainer, or put it in a ziploc bag and roll on it with a rolling pin. Blending may also have the effect of breaking down the rootstock and effectively making the grind finer. The length of this step matters. There is a point of diminishing returns but I'd say if you are only kneading for like, three minutes, you are leaving kavalactones on the table and nobody wants that.

The fourth is the coarseness of the strainer you use. The coarser the strainer the more sediment you get but the more potent it is. Some are very fine (muslin bags), others are fairly coarse (fijian strainer bags).

A lot of members find it effective to re-use kava as well, for a second wash or even more (in my experience, the drink becomes very thin, soupy and ineffective at the third wash).

Finally, some find it helps to add fats or emulsifiers such as milk or soy lecithin to the water.

In my opinion, the amount of water used is not so important as long as you use enough to effectively knead, roll, or blend the kava, and the less water you use the grittier the kava will be but the less you will have to drink. So it's more a matter of personal taste.

To sum up, here are the things you can change to potentially get more mileage out of your kava, depending on how much sediment you are willing to tolerate and how much work you are willing to do:
- Finer grinds
- Higher water temperature
- Different prep methods and more time on prep
- Coarser strainer
- Re-using strained root multiple times
- Adding fats or emulsifiers

There is a list of techniques at https://kavaforums.com/forum/link-forums/kava-preparation.246/, feel free to add your own.

Sources: The Pacific Elixir, my own experience


Infraredz's Thoughts on Kava Preparation:
Notes:
  • My method outlines in the Kavapedia is a very simple method to get you started. I recommend that you try the traditional method and other methods listed in the kavapedia. Once you have a "feel for it" you can personalize your own preparation.
  • Other strainers can be used. Some other choices that work well for others include: "Fijian Strainers", clean t-shirts or other fabric, cotton muslin bags and double or tripled-up paint strainers. The finer the strainer, the less sediment will end up in the resulting drink but it's widely accepted that sediment increases potency. However it also can cause negative side-effects (especially in the GI) so find the right amount for yourself.
  • Regarding blenders: I purchased a $25 blender over a year ago and have left used it almost every day for that amount of time with no issues. Further, I actually don't blend in 2 minute intervals, but rather two, 3-4 min intervals and have had no issues with overheating. Your mileage might vary.
  • Almost everyone agrees kava taste better chilled or cooled so putting your bowl/mug/cup in the fridge is usually what I do.
  • There's debate about water temperatures, and while boiling water (or hot water, sub-boiling pt) are better at extracting the kavalactones, this was meant to be a bare bones, simple prep for all the newbies who can be overwhelmed (also, kava prepared with hot water tastes worse).
  • Regarding hot water, it has been proven that hot water is a better at extracting kavalactones.
  • There's also debate about using emulsifiers since kavalactones aren't water soluble and therefore must be physically agitated into a suspension. In my experience, milk, soy lecithin, and other lipids haven't had a significant increase in potency and they add more viscosity to the resulting kava which can already be very thick and hard to stomach. I'd recommend not worrying about it in the beginning.
  • Traditional preparations, where you "massage" and "knead" the kava will be more potent, without a doubt. That being said, in my experience, you would only need [for example] 6 tbsp instead of 7 tbsp. This difference does add up over time, though.

Infraredz: Boiling Water Does Not Destroy Kavalactones
"About three years ago, a test (using HPLC) was done on boiling the kava beverage (~212F). Loss after a few minutes at that temperature was considered insignificant. Less than 5% of the kavalactones were lost."
[The link is broken, but the quote was from the owner of Hawaiiankava.com]

Evidence
"This one's more about special lab equipment based extraction so I can't be sure it applies here, but the graph on page 190 (and following pages) shows that, in general, the percentage of extraction increases as temperature increases. Yangonin extraction is essentially 0% until you reach boiling point"
[link seems broken to me, but you could try it: http://144.206.159.178/ft/553/42507/769267.pdf]

More Evidence
"Various authors have suggested that the two compounds isolated by Cuzent and Gobley, kavahine and methysticin, are the same and correspond to methysticin as it is known today (see figure 3.1). However, the percentage analysis of carbon (C), hydrogen (H), and oxygen (0) given by Cuzent (1861a) for kavahine 5.85% C, 5.64% H, and 28.51% 0) is closer to the composition of didromethysticin (65.21 % C, 5.84% H, 28.95 % 0) than to that of methysticin 5.69% C, 5.15% H, 29.17% 0, calculated in Lebot and Cabalion 1986). The melting point of kavahine, 120-130 C, is also nearer to that of dihyromethysticin (116-118 °C, Winzheimer 1908; 117-118 °C, Borsche and Bodenstein 1929; 118 °C, Joessang and Molho 1970) than to that of methysticin 132-135 °C, Sauer and Haensel 1967; 136-137 °C, Rasmussen et al. 1979; 139-140 °C, Borsche and Peitzsch 1929a; see also Duve 1981). The differences bserved between these figures would be easy to explain if Cuzent had actually obtained and analyzed pure syncrystals, but the 10 °C variation in the melting point of his kavahine indicates that the substance he analyzed was contaminated. Our best guess is that Cuzent's kavahine was a mixture of dihydromethysticin and methysticin."
[http://www.aldbot.com/New_Folder-1/ch3lebot.htm]

More regarding chemical structure and implications for storage:
"According to Duve and Prasad (1983), there are trends in the deterioration of the major active constituents in both dry powdered root and basal stems. Storage of the samples in screw-capped glass bottles at room temperature resulted in 26, 33 and 55% degradation of the major constituents in the roots and 24, 50 and 48% degradation in basal stems after 22, 36 and 39 months of storage, respectively. Moisture and temperature are probably the major environmental factors affecting the deterioration of dry powdered plant material. Stability of the active constituents appeared to be dependent on the chemical structure, with dihydrokavain being the least stable and methysticin the most stable (Duve and Prasad, 1983). In addition, stability improves with increasing melting point and the degree of unsaturation.

These findings suggest that more polar substances are likely to be stable at room temperature. In contrast, in non-polar molecules like dihydrokavain, the pyrone ring tends to open up to form more polar acidic components which would be readily stabilized by moisture from the storage environment. The identity of the degradation products have not been established but formation of a characteristic off-odor from the samples has been described (Duve and Prasad, 1983), which probably reflects formation of the corresponding acids from the active constituents. Further studies are, however, needed before firm recommendations can be made on storage conditions for powdered kava."

Predicted boiling points of kavalactones:
As far as I know, these are all predicted and have not actually been observed.

Boiling points:

Kavain: 432.64 °C at 760 mmHg
Dihydrokavain: 413±45.0 °C at 760 mmHg
Methysticin: 496.48 °C at 760 mmHg
Dihydromethysticin: 476.1ºC at 760 mmHg
I've done Kava 10 years and I don't feel anything unless I heat it up to 141 degrees . I like Stone and Wow kava from Nakamal. Stone and Wow have high kavatone counts. Yet if I don't heat it to 141, then I feel nothing... literally nothing..... If I boil it then it changes the feeling from a relaxed buzz to an energetic frantic buzz.

I have a laser thermometer and carefully heat my grog to 141 and not a degree over or I will not sleep a wink. I want to relax, not get wired.
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
I've done Kava 10 years and I don't feel anything unless I heat it up to 141 degrees . I like Stone and Wow kava from Nakamal. Stone and Wow have high kavatone counts. Yet if I don't heat it to 141, then I feel nothing... literally nothing..... If I boil it then it changes the feeling from a relaxed buzz to an energetic frantic buzz.

I have a laser thermometer and carefully heat my grog to 141 and not a degree over or I will not sleep a wink. I want to relax, not get wired.
Very intetesting. Maybe this is partly why my basic blender methos seems so much more deeply effective and enjoyable.

I soak 40 to 50 grams in 1-1.25 Litres, with sunflower lecuthin and fairly hot water, but bearable to touch.

I leave sit one hour, blend 2 mins high, 2 mins low- strain.


But also I'm confused, @CrunkMonk if you would be willing to elaborate please, I'm veey curious- how do you prepare your kava and when do you apply the 141 degrees heat level is this after you have already extracted the the grog, via traditional prep and kneading?

Or do you start your you're needing process with 141 degrees water which obviously would drop in temperature fairly quickly though of course.

Or some other approach entirely?

Sorry to ask I'm just very curious and I'm still learning a great lot about kava.


Since I switched to using my new and current Allubottles, I have reverted to room temperature water only but today after reading your post I used fairly hot water and wow I swear there is a notable difference in effects much more pleasurable and euphoric and dreamy for myself.

Generally a happier and more secure place as well.

Thanks for sharing mate very interested in your experience and basic approach.
 

CrunkMonk

Kava Curious
Very intetesting. Maybe this is partly why my basic blender methos seems so much more deeply effective and enjoyable.

I soak 40 to 50 grams in 1-1.25 Litres, with sunflower lecuthin and fairly hot water, but bearable to touch.

I leave sit one hour, blend 2 mins high, 2 mins low- strain.


But also I'm confused, @CrunkMonk if you would be willing to elaborate please, I'm veey curious- how do you prepare your kava and when do you apply the 141 degrees heat level is this after you have already extracted the the grog, via traditional prep and kneading?

Or do you start your you're needing process with 141 degrees water which obviously would drop in temperature fairly quickly though of course.

Or some other approach entirely?

Sorry to ask I'm just very curious and I'm still learning a great lot about kava.


Since I switched to using my new and current Allubottles, I have reverted to room temperature water only but today after reading your post I used fairly hot water and wow I swear there is a notable difference in effects much more pleasurable and euphoric and dreamy for myself.

Generally a happier and more secure place as well.

Thanks for sharing mate very interested in your experience and basic approach.
I usually use a blender as its much faster than kneading. For me the water has to be 141 degrees. The only way to get it there without overheating it is with a great thermometer. EBay sells cheap and super accurate laser thermometers for like $15. Be sure to stand there and constantly stir the grog as the bottom gets hotter than the top of the liquid. I usually take heated tap water that is usually 115-120 degrees and then heat it on the stove. It only takes about one minute for it to jump up to 141, so you don't have to stand there taking the temp for very long. When the grog hits 141, then I flame out and let it sit a few minutes, before the blending.

I also will take the left over grounds and re-heat them to 141 degrees, then on to the blender again for a nice second session. An empty stomach is really important to "feel" kava, for me that would be about 6 hours after a meal cuz I have slow digestion.

An hour is a long time to wait for Kava. I pretty much exhaust the grounds in about 20 minutes. Heating them twice to 141 strips the kavatones out fast, especially with a good blender. I also sometimes need to increase my stomach acid a bit to digest and break down the Kava. The best way I've found so far is to mince up about a tablespoon of raw garlic and do it right before slamming the kava. Its hard to do the raw garlic and really burns. I just swallow the tiny pieces with some water right before. This helps maintain my stomach acid levels pretty well and keeps my stomach strong. Probiotics are important too especially if you do Kava every day.
 
Last edited:

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
I usually use a blender as its much faster than kneading. For me the water has to be 141 degrees. The only way to get it there without overheating it is with a great thermometer. EBay sells cheap and super accurate laser thermometers for like $15. Be sure to stand there and constantly stir the grog as the bottom gets hotter than the top of the liquid. I usually take heated tap water that is usually 115-120 degrees and then heat it on the stove. It only takes about one minute for it to jump up to 141, so you don't have to stand there taking the temp for very long. When the grog hits 141, then I flame out and let it sit a few minutes, before the blending.

I also will take the left over grounds and re-heat them to 141 degrees, then on to the blender again for a nice second session. An empty stomach is really important to "feel" kava, for me that would be about 6 hours after a meal cuz I have slow digestion.

An hour is a long time to wait for Kava. I pretty much exhaust the grounds in about 20 minutes. Heating them twice to 141 strips the kavatones out fast, especially with a good blender. I also sometimes need to increase my stomach acid a bit to digest and break down the Kava. The best way I've found so far is to mince up about a tablespoon of raw garlic and do it right before slamming the kava. Its hard to do the raw garlic and really burns. I just swallow the tiny pieces with some water right before. This helps maintain my stomach acid levels pretty well and keeps my stomach strong. Probiotics are important too especially if you do Kava every day.
Hi, thanks very much for elaborating so so openly my friend. That was all very interesting to me and fitted with my subconscious assumption that you must be using the blending method in order to actually keep the water temperature within range.

And that's even more interesting to me personally but you say about the garlic because I have a long history of experience with a wide variety of psychoactive herbs and compounds besides kava and I have found that the greatest dietary potentiator of virtually all psychoactive compounds is actually raw garlic except it must be organic to really have any medicinal effect and potency.

The other really important aspect of garlic is that the magical medicinal compound is the the renowned Allicin.

Allicin is not actually present in garlic until a chemical reaction occurs between the enzymes and the allicin is formed from that reaction.

But in order to achieve this it is important to properly Crush the garlic and leave it for 10 minutes before swallowing on an empty stomach for the true medicinal potential.

I to swallow 3 or 4 cloves of raw organic everyday as an amazing treatment for my chronic respiratory infections and allergies due to long-term Lyme disease.

But raw garlic taken on an empty stomach is also very powerfully detoxing for the stomach and intestines and it works on a systemic level as a medicine supporting many bodily systems,


@CrunkMonk your post has certainly increased my assumption that my blending method is more Potent partially because of the hot water soaking beforehand.

Hope you are well mate and massive thanks again for replying and explaining that so clearly.
 

CrunkMonk

Kava Curious
Very intetesting. Maybe this is partly why my basic blender methos seems so much more deeply effective and enjoyable.

I soak 40 to 50 grams in 1-1.25 Litres, with sunflower lecuthin and fairly hot water, but bearable to touch.

I leave sit one hour, blend 2 mins high, 2 mins low- strain.


But also I'm confused, @CrunkMonk if you would be willing to elaborate please, I'm veey curious- how do you prepare your kava and when do you apply the 141 degrees heat level is this after you have already extracted the the grog, via traditional prep and kneading?

Or do you start your you're needing process with 141 degrees water which obviously would drop in temperature fairly quickly though of course.

Or some other approach entirely?

Sorry to ask I'm just very curious and I'm still learning a great lot about kava.


Since I switched to using my new and current Allubottles, I have reverted to room temperature water only but today after reading your post I used fairly hot water and wow I swear there is a notable difference in effects much more pleasurable and euphoric and dreamy for myself.

Generally a happier and more secure place as well.

Thanks for sharing mate very interested in your experience and basic approach.
50 grams is a pretty good dose. You should be able to feel that much. I usually go about 30 grams, but I like higher kavatone
I will try it out, I sometimes need more of a daytime Kava, so I will drink it hot. Maybe it makes the kavalactones absorb more as an inebriant. Thanks for the info.
Drinking it hot does seem to make it stronger. But its harder t
Hi, thanks very much for elaborating so so openly my friend. That was all very interesting to me and fitted with my subconscious assumption that you must be using the blending method in order to actually keep the water temperature within range.

And that's even more interesting to me personally but you say about the garlic because I have a long history of experience with a wide variety of psychoactive herbs and compounds besides kava and I have found that the greatest dietary potentiator of virtually all psychoactive compounds is actually raw garlic except it must be organic to really have any medicinal effect and potency.

The other really important aspect of garlic is that the magical medicinal compound is the the renowned Allicin.

Allicin is not actually present in garlic until a chemical reaction occurs between the enzymes and the allicin is formed from that reaction.

But in order to achieve this it is important to properly Crush the garlic and leave it for 10 minutes before swallowing on an empty stomach for the true medicinal potential.

I to swallow 3 or 4 cloves of raw organic everyday as an amazing treatment for my chronic respiratory infections and allergies due to long-term Lyme disease.

But raw garlic taken on an empty stomach is also very powerfully detoxing for the stomach and intestines and it works on a systemic level as a medicine supporting many bodily systems,


@CrunkMonk your post has certainly increased my assumption that my blending method is more Potent partially because of the hot water soaking beforehand.

Hope you are well mate and massive thanks again for replying and explaining that so clearly.
My heartburn stomach problems pretty much went away as soon as I started doing the raw garlic every day with my daily kava session. I think you might have been the one to suggest the garlic to me though; on a Kavassur Youtube comment a while back... Well I followed that advice and it helped me out to the point that I think I should just do raw garlic everyday.

I already did know about the allicin compound and I always let it sit out at least 15 minutes. But lately I will let the raw garlic pieces set even longer like 20-30 min. I swear it gets even stronger as it oxidizes, to a degree anyway. I also mince the raw garlic to the point of insanity!! its almost just a minced mush at the end, right before I put it on a spoon to sit awhile.

I realize that many people might not believe that garlic is magic, but nothing has helped my stomach more!! I even worked at a healthfood coop for awhile and tried out lots of supplements for digestion. That's where I stumbled upon a few free customer returns on some Gaia Kava concentrate caps. My friend said take half the bottle and I did.

I felt a pretty intense buzz that first time I did it so I had faith that kava could feel pretty damn powerful.... That was long ago and I've been on a real roller coaster trying to figure out how to get the most out of Kava since. In that ancient time of 2010 we didn't have such a great selection of vendors, so I did get burned a lot buying kava off of EBay LOL. But having stuff like Wow and Stone [today] make me realize that if I don't feel the kava, its not the kava's fault for sure.....

I was getting fat from eating too much. So I went on a diet called intermittent fasting. I try to fast 16-17 hours strait every night. I do the kava about 6-7 hours after my last meal. This way I'm in a beginning fasting state and my stomach [loaded with raw garlic] is ready to break down those kavatones.

There is a dude in this thread that talked about drinking the Kava hot as well. I like to drink Kava as hot as I can, like a tea almost. Sometimes at the end of a session I'll get out a concentrate kava and put it into a hot cup of water just to sip down and keep the session going..... The heat from that concentrated kava tea helps the session I just drank before become more potent. Hot liquids seem to make me feel most herbs better than if drank them at cold or room temperature. Like I said before 141 degree Fahrenheit. seems like a magic temperature for heating up the kava.

I don't know if organic garlic is better or not. But I have both right now and I will have to see if there is much difference. I also wonder if aged garlic gets more potent in general, just sitting around so long and all? I know it rots eventually, but it does tend to last a long time if kept in a cool place. I swear that some garlic is way better for potentiating than others so far.....

I won't lie though, most people will not be able to stomach this much garlic at first. I usually go 1 heaping Tablespoon minced garlic minimum. But in the past I did as much as a whole mouthful like 2-3 Tablespoons, and that seems to work better. The more you do, the better; up until you can't stand it anyway.....

With time, the raw allicin charged garlic right before slamming the kava will seem less painful. It really burns like hell if its any good too. I never chew it and only swallow the tiny pieces. The minced tiny pieces are better than I could ever chew anyway. I chug that garlic down with a few mouthfuls of water to get it in my stomach. Then on to the totally prepared kava.

If I don't have that first kava session ready to go; then my stomach will really start to burn like hell and I will get an overwhelming urge to puke from said garlic. Drinking the Kava right after the garlic really calms down that burning feeling fast. Always, always, have the Kava ready to drink [before] swallowing that garlic.....
 

kavakarma

Kava Enthusiast
@CrunkMonk It may be me who likes to drink Kava hot!
I assure you, with 4 tablespoons of root, a strainer, some time, water, and a bowl, maybe some gloves or soap, I can definitely give you a shell that you will feel, without heating the water. I know also that with time, water can be heated with your hands. What you may be noticing is the "krunkier" essence that some grab from heating. I like to heat the water most of the time. Some research says not to heat above 140 and while I respect it, I don't understand it.

Kava is something I respect and claim to understand little about. The Kava brewed at cooler temps should still satisfy you. That's interesting.
 

CrunkMonk

Kava Curious
I've been experimenting with Wow and Stone from Nakamal. I usually use 4-5 tablespoons or about 25 grams. I use a blender cuz doing the prep with my hands just takes too long. If I don't heat it to 141, then I don't feel anything. I've done lots of the room temp. prep in my decade of kava use, and I never feel it that way personally.

But my stomach acid tends to get low probably from not taking much of a break from kava, or just from getting old. I also think that if a persons stomach acid is low, then they don't really have the capacity to break down the kavatones properly. In the Youtube documentary "Kava the drink of the gods" There is an old man doing Kava prep in a large container. There is steam rolling off of the Kava he is prepping, this tells me that I'm not the only one that likes it heated. I don't know what temp his water was though. My hands start to burn too much at about 115 degrees, so I doubt its too much over that or he could not stick his hands in it....
 

kavakarma

Kava Enthusiast
I like what you said. I've a digital meat thermometer and can appreciate squeezin' kneadin' hands in water at 130F. Sometimes the root is far hotter than the water, and I feel the heat for a moment. I'm sure the water is 140-145+ if it is steaming.
 

CrunkMonk

Kava Curious
@CrunkMonk It may be me who likes to drink Kava hot!
I assure you, with 4 tablespoons of root, a strainer, some time, water, and a bowl, maybe some gloves or soap, I can definitely give you a shell that you will feel, without heating the water. I know also that with time, water can be heated with your hands. What you may be noticing is the "krunkier" essence that some grab from heating. I like to heat the water most of the time. Some research says not to heat above 140 and while I respect it, I don't understand it.

Kava is something I respect and claim to understand little about. The Kava brewed at cooler temps should still satisfy you. That's interesting.
@CrunkMonk It may be me who likes to drink Kava hot!
I assure you, with 4 tablespoons of root, a strainer, some time, water, and a bowl, maybe some gloves or soap, I can definitely give you a shell that you will feel, without heating the water. I know also that with time, water can be heated with your hands. What you may be noticing is the "krunkier" essence that some grab from heating. I like to heat the water most of the time. Some research says not to heat above 140 and while I respect it, I don't understand it.

Kava is something I respect and claim to understand little about. The Kava brewed at cooler temps should still satisfy you. That's interesting.
I did a traditional prep instead of the blender last night, [but still heated the kava once to 141]. I got way more of a feeling from it, almost krunked. I think that my mistake this whole time is just my western mind set that somehow a blender should work better. But kneading the root seems far superior. Now feel like its the action of "squeezing" out the makas with love and care instead of just blending it that helps creates potency too. I also soaked the grounds for way longer this time [a good hour or so].

I was checking out Tanoa Kava bowls the other day and wondered to myself why that bowl is such an important traditional icon for Kava? I can't believe how much better kneading it really is! I also set an intent for the Kava session and tried to respect the root more than usual. This also is a western foible, as most of us just pop a pill and expect it to work for us. The idea of respecting a substance and even inviting it in is a foreign concept to most. Thanks for your tips.
 
Top