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Vanuatu National Kava Strategy Includes Ban on Planting Tudei Kava

Discussion in 'In-Depth Kava Discussion' started by Harpo, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    That's all fine and great, Deleted User. It still doesn't say that Tudei is harmful. It still doesn't apply to countries outside of Vanuatu, such as Fiji, Tonga, or these United States of America. It still doesn't say the acetonic test is the best way to determine nobility.

    Back in 2009, when I started studying Kava from an anthropological perspective, I talked to a lot of folks in Vanuatu who said the proposed ban on exporting Tudei or Medicinal Kava originally had to with the fact that they were considered sacred and/or for use only in ritual purposes. Kaiden Fox (Prince Phillip) and I did a lot of inquiring into this, reading the different local newspapers, official documents, and publications of other Kava groups in Vanuatu. They also said that the government was hesitant to export stronger Tudei Kavas because of the European ban on extracts. There seemed to be some misunderstanding about the perception of Tudei Kavas in foreign markets as too strong and how that might lead to further legislation against Kava generally - not because of fear about the safety of Kava.

    You've copied and pasted a document that simply says Tudei shouldn't be exported from Vanuatu. It doesn't say why, describe a context, or ask people in the United States to conduct unreliable tests to snitch on vendors.
  2. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    Specifically, the reason that Tudei is also known as "medicinal" or "ceremonial" is because it is very strong and used in religious rituals. It is believed to have spiritual properties. In the past, people didn't want it to be exported for this reason. Now, they don't want it to be exported because it was scapegoated as the reason for the Europe ban. Tudei has a long and funny history.

    Again, I want all Kava to be properly labeled. But unless you have your way and get the US government involved, there will be no laws against the consumption or importing of Tudei in this country. It is only your little testing unit with its ineffective testing scheme that will be giving stickers to vendors once you have "tested" a small, unrepresentative sample of their product.

    So, Deleted User.. If someone grows Isa in Hawaii and wants to sell it in the United States, do you want them to adhere to our laws or to Vanuatu's laws?
    Krunʞy likes this.
  3. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    By the way, Vanuatu must be one of the few places in the world where the medicinal variety is banned, but the recreational variety is legal :ROFLMAO:
  4. Kapmcrunk

    Kapmcrunk The Kaptain of Crunk KavaForums Founder

    "Green Gold"

    Very aptly named.
  5. ApéroNoble

    ApéroNoble The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer

    Here is my question: If the test is good enough for Vanuatu National Quality Standard for Kava Export
    Why can't we have a standard on the forum? Jimmy does not need to allow failing kavas to be listed. He could just say, "Here are the kavas we have certified as noble through the acetone test." Boom that's it. At least then people can KNOW the kava they are drinking is noble. That would make this forum very helpful to so many people.
    I don't know likes this.
  6. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    All Kava is safe! That's good news! Nay, that's GREAT news.

    I feel like I'm repeating myself here: I want all Kava to be properly labeled.

    I haven't seen a Vanuatu Tudei on the market in a long time. If I saw one, I wouldn't buy it. I would buy a Tudei from PNG, Hawaii, or Fiji - they haven't instilled such bans.

    Also, just to play devil's advocate. As a post-colonial state, has it ever occurred to you that Vanuatu feels the need to buckle to European demands on the kinds of Kava it exports - overt or explicit? After the poisonous extracts caused problems in Europe, Tudei unfairly took the brunt of the counter-attack and has since become the scapegoat for all Kava safety issues. Unfortunately, Vanuatu might be beating its own traditions up because of post-colonial distress.
  7. violet

    violet Do all things with love Moderator

    I think the forum is, or should be, a place for people to be able to come together over kava despite differences in opinion and differences in preferences. There are a number of forum vendors who are already TK certified, and others who sell excellent quality noble kavas.

    There shouldn't be any issue finding noble kavas here, and it shouldn't be an issue if someone feels the need to ask. It's part of what we're here for. To create a forum standard that would exclude kavas that "failed" to placate the vocal majority would be to alienate other members as well as vendors. There are probably one or two other kava forums that have been created already with the intention of permitting and promoting the noble only cause. To be fair this forum is for all kava lovers.
  8. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    I think I will just keep posting this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26695707 until @Kavasseur reads it and either accepts it or offers equally convincing counter arguments.
    According to the above scholars the (admittedly very rare but nonetheless real) health problems experienced by kava users were most likely not caused by the method of extraction or the use of leaves, but by the use of tudei kava. They describe tudei as actually potentially toxic and believe that treating it as kava is misleading and harmful to kava's otherwise excellent safety record. Boom!
    Crunked and ApéroNoble like this.
  9. ApéroNoble

    ApéroNoble The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer

    These are the certified vendors. Very small choice considering how many vendors are out there. How many others may get their act together if the list were posted here and comprehensive? I know from first hand experience about tudei. I nearly gave up on kava altogether. I come here occasionally to joke about, but honestly it would be nice to be able to check in and see a nice list of noble kavas here.

    Gourmet Hawaiian Kava: Owned and operated by veteran kava farmer Chris Allen, this is the number one source of US grown noble kava. With over twenty years of experience in identifying, cultivating, and processing kava, Chris offers a truly noble product that is consistently of the highest quality. Every aspect of his kava production receives his personal attention, from cultivar selection to final packaging. Chris offers a large selection of traditional Hawaiian cultivars, and is heavily involved in research and preservation of this Hawaiian heritage.



    Kalm with Kava: Mike Munsell is the inventor of "Kalm with Kava", a ready to drink kava product made with pure noble kava. Through personal visits to Vanuatu and much careful negotiation, Mike has recently added ground kava root to his product line. Mike takes great pride in offering only noble kava, testing and certifying each small batch to ensure utmost quality.




    Cactus Kava:



    The Kava Boutique: A subsidiary of the Kava Society of New Zealand, this shop offers quick and hassle-free shipment of top quality, noble kavas from Hawaii and other parts of the Pacific directly from Auckland to all of New Zealand.



    MeloMelo Kava Bar: Recently opened in Berkeley CA, owned and operated by Rami, Nico, and Anneliese. These veteran kava drinkers understand their product and are dedicated not only to maintaining its 3000 year history of safe and responsible use, but also to expanding that tradition to fit the lifestyles of the American public. With respect for the honorable image of kava and an intimate knowledge of its proper use, this fine establishment stands as a model of what an American kava bar should be.
    Gourmet Hawaiian Kava likes this.
  10. violet

    violet Do all things with love Moderator

    To call an argument "convincing" is entirely subjective. These arguments run a predictable course that usually doesn't end until unpleasantries are exchanged and content gets removed. Probably best for folks to agree to disagree as arguing, passive aggressiveness, and underhanded insults aren't going to change what's happening in Vanuatu.
  11. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    Sorry Henry, I don't see anything about Tudei in the abstract. And I'm not going to spend money on the article. I've got a couple of kids to feed here (and a Kava website to pay for!)

    Also, why the "boom!"? This isn't a fight.

    I am advocating for the proper labeling of Kava.
  12. violet

    violet Do all things with love Moderator

    @ApéroNoble There's a large forum subsection dedicated to vendors that includes descriptions in the product profiles. We could probably add a subsection for kava serving establishments if there's enough need/demand.
  13. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    That's fair.
  14. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    Sorry Doug. I sent you the full version of the article on the 2nd of June.

    Anyway, I am attaching the article for everyone's benefit. Enjoy it, my dear friends.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  15. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    Boy, thanks for throwing me under the bus there :(
  16. ApéroNoble

    ApéroNoble The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer

    From my experience those descriptions don't mean a whole lot with the tudei lacing which Deleted User actually brought to light. After being sick on several kavas which product profiles said they were one thing but actually had tudei mixed in I stick with third party tested products.
    FYS and Gourmet Hawaiian Kava like this.
  17. Kojo Douglas

    Kojo Douglas Kava Enthusiast

    "tudei lacing" ??

    Jeeze, we're really embarking on some serious hyperbole these days.
  18. Krunʞy

    Krunʞy Kava Enthusiast Admin

    I couldn't agree more, I just wish all opinions were respected equally.