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Deleted User01

They talk about Dealers, show small baggies of White Powder, Smuggling Kilos into the country. Is this Heroine or Kava? You are right, it's nuts. But remember that it was brought in to help stem a big problem with alcohol consumption. So pick your poison.
 

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
One could easily think they were talking about a real DRUG like Meth if they blanked out everytime they said Kava.

It gives you a nice look at how the Media and Goverment "all of them" try to sway popular opinion away from things that might "in this case definitely" not be bad.
They definitely dont want people to do things with great effects, without real negative side effects, that in return take away their sales from big PHARM.
I also think Kava gives those who experience it a spiritual awakening, or enlightenment; that they do not want you to achieve.
Because then you remove yourself from the loop of mainstream ideology, or idiocracy. "lol"

I truely feel for the Tongan community there, and can feel exactly why they are upset.
I might also try going to church after drinking some "enlightenment", I think they might be on to something. ;)
 
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Deleted User01

Well, the Elephant in the room is that fact that many indigenous people have problems with their poisons. Kava was brought in to try to wean them from alcohol and so Kava became their alcohol replacement. This is not a story about Kava but rather a story of a peoples fight to stay sober. I'm sure some anthropologists could offer a better explanation of why this happens every time "the white man" comes in and steals a country and displaces the people who are native to that country. I would ask this, what kind of Botanicals were they doing before the British entered Australia? They were obviously a happy and care free people before their Continent was invaded. Of course, our own Native Americans have to battle the same problems as those in Australia. There is a much bigger story here and it is not about Drugs or Alcohol.
 

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
Well, I would have to comment that it is the personal responsibility of the natives "as well as everyone else" to make the proper decisions for their life.
And that it is not ok for one group to be deprived because of another group.
The Tongans for example; being deprived because of "abuse" from the indigenous people.

I dont really want to reply about the whole "white man stealing" aspect, because I feel it will get to political.
I do not want to introduce that to the Forum.

Freedom is a wonderful thing.
They should just allow them to experience it.
 
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Deleted User01

On the "white man" comment. I was trying to make the point about displacement of indigenous peoples and how it effects them (including Native Americans). Perhaps this is not the place for those types of comments. My real point is that the article should not be about Kava. It should be about the Aborigines fight against addiction and/or their preference to use their idle time to get wasted on whatever is handy. The leader of the Aborigines knows good and well what is going on but he prefers to demonize the substance and not place the blame where it squarely belongs, on his own people. I apologise if any of my comments offended anyone.
 

Kravatomill

Kava Curious
On the "white man" comment. I was trying to make the point about displacement of indigenous peoples and how it effects them (including Native Americans). Perhaps this is not the place for those types of comments. My real point is that the article should not be about Kava. It should be about the Aborigines fight against addiction and/or their preference to use their idle time to get wasted on whatever is handy. The leader of the Aborigines knows good and well what is going on but he prefers to demonize the substance and not place the blame where it squarely belongs, on his own people. I apologise if any of my comments offended anyone.
Although we "all" kind of already agreed the "white man burden" suff isn't for this forum, I still have some points I would like to share, take it or leave it.
I completely understand Deleted User01's aspect and comparing. For me I more think that there is no land to be stolen from anyone. The world is for the organisms living on it, that includes all people, all animals or even things we are fighting against since the beginning of time, e..g. viruses, bacteria.

My point is that we should be able to live anywhere, and no one should be able to say "this is "my people's territory, you are not welcome". Ok, if we speak fo a house, a yard, I agree we should be able to have those properties privately. But when a group of people call themselves "Swedish", "Americans", or whatever you want, that's when the serious problem begins.

In my utopia, the first Europeans to come to America should be able to go there and live there. But they should by no means have the right to tell people already living there the piss off, nor should the people who already living there be able to tell the Europeans to piss off. Same goes for South Africa, the British Empire, Australia. I'm sad to say it's next to always Europe who have done these things, except for some Arabic eras around Northern Africa and even Spain for awhile.

And yes, we where not as intelligent nor as empathic back in the days towards people not living close to us. Distances where much huger back then. Today I can sit on skype with Thailand or America from Sweden without even a second of delay. Things have changed and they have changed dramatically.
However, the history is constantly repeating itself. For example, we might not come with our troops and tell people to piss off anymore (although it does happen...), but we more go to places like let's say Phuket and simply buy it all. Until we end up with the profits, and the natives lives in shacks and shelters. Now Europeans/Americans aren't necessarily the worst in this issue. The Chinese are doing exactly this and have been doing it for years. They know how to begin from the bottom but end up with an empire, like most of Thailand's gold Market etc.

So, are they doing right? Are they doing wrong? On one hand I think it's wrong. On the other hand it pisses me off when Thais tell me I can't own land there, only 49% which is more than enough for me, but still, it's the principle. I simply don't agree with the idea of Nations in this way.
We are all brothers and sisters. Sure we may look a little different, speak a little different, which is a natural cause of being far away from each other for thousand and thousands of years. Still we all come from the same family eventually. And we should be able to choose freely where we want to live and what we want to do there.
I know many will disagree with me. What about all the Muslims coming building Mosques all around the States etc. What about the millions of Southern Americans invading the country in hunt for work. it sure would be a chaos. But the chaos would be because we have created a situation where chaos, in my point of view, is inevitably sooner or later. Sure, lets wait a few hundred years more, people will get more and more, supplies will not be enough and people will start to walk towards areas that still stands more or less stable. Which then might be China for all that we know...

I know, I'm very liberal, and not so very classic liberal/Capitalistic. After all I am born and raised in Sweden, and we are often pictured as a communist state in The States. Which couldn't be further from the truth, but I guess it depends on what you compare with.

So what is my point? I hardly know. All I know is this Noble kava made me extremely talk active, so I have to apologize for my little outburst here. I guess I'm trying to find a solution, or a reason. Or perhaps simply trying to see how we could unify this world that believe themselves being of so many different races, taking rights over others, while in truth being so similar each other.

So my conclusion? I want to see open borders, I want to see a free market, I want the monetary system to again to be built on units of gold and not on debt.
I want to be able to start a business in let's say Uganda, and I want an Ugandan be able to start a business in Sweden.
I want the GDP to even out over the world. And I want us to share the surface brotherly and without violence and claims of ownership or similar issues.
Impossible? well, I guess 98% impossible to make my utopia true, sure. But I do feel we have a great future ahead of us.

People do complain about violence, about unjust systems. About how America wants to take over the world, blablabla.
I want to say F*** that. Like we where better off in the past?
Look far enough and you will see people fighting for a piece of meat, gor forward a bit and you will see people cheering while they kill each other at the Colosseum. Say what you want about Ultimate fighting, but it sure is a step forward from how things used to be.
People complain on wars. Well, statistically if you think of how many we are today, we have a very peaceful world compared with how the world used to be.
We hear threats sometimes. But it's been a long time since something serious happened. (ok, letting drones kill innocent Pakistanis and Afghans is a serious thing, but I do believe most of you get my point).
If we are continuing in this direction the world will become even more peaceful. Sure, internet is a great way to creat mass-psychosis, just look at the 2012 hysteria, illuminati, the bilderbergers, Anunaki and even that damn Planet X or whatever they call it. Sure, there may be truth to some of the claims. Usually there is always some truth to everything. But with sound effects, a good convincing voice and some good photography I'm sure I could make a "documentary" that would make people trully believe we are the ofspring of a plant that used to live on Mars etc.

Hmm, Ok so.. I'm extremely far from the topic, Ironic since I created it. Congrats to those who read all the way here, you just lost some valuable time :)
It's wrong what the white man did to the aboriginals in the past in Australia, but then again many things are wrong that happened in the past, and they aren't so easy to reverse.
The aboriginals should have the right to consume Kava, abusing it or not. They have to let them do things their way for once, and find their answers for themselves where to turn next. That's the only way I can see to end this empire thing we Europeans once started.
The End...
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
^^---I pretty much agree with all that.
But, back to the video...I think the guy said they were showing health problems similar to what anorexics get. Like all sensationalized news stories love to do, they tried to make it sound like the kava itself gives you these problems. I think the real deal is that the aborigines are poor, rural people with little health education and not much to do all day. They're sitting around drinking kava all day everyday to the point where they are neglecting to eat a proper diet. The story of course doesn't tell you that the health problems are more so the result of them not eating enough and getting proper nutrients. Instead it would have you believe that it is simply a part of consuming kava.
It kinda reminds of when you hear about MDMA on the news...on rare occasions someone will drink too much water while on mdma, throw their electrolytes out of balance and die or get hospitalized from it. Then the news will do a piece on "the party drug that's killing our children". But did mdma kill that person ? No, fuckin' water did. Or what the biggest problem with mdma probably is, is that people think their buying/consuming mdma when it's actually some lesser known and more dangerous research chemical. They end up dead...and the news tells you it was mdma, when it actually wasnt...and had it actually been mdma it likely wouldnt have happened.
But i'm getting off track with the mdma talk, so..... Kava!

kava kava kava
http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/nktd0e/chappelle-s-show-diversity-in-first-class
 
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Kravatomill

Kava Curious
some things to ponder:

-The sound guy for that news clip has definitely worked on some horror films before. As Kravatomill said, "But with sound effects, a good convincing voice and some good photography I'm sure I could make a "documentary" that would make people trully believe" ... that kava is something on the same level of crack cocaine, meth, or H, as that vid insinuated. Add some haunting music, pictures of dirty bags of who knows what, and voila! This was the most ridiculous news video I've ever seen. Of course the other day I was flipping through the channels and saw "Do female athletes hurt their career and sport by being sexy", which proves the point that the news just doesn't care anymore.

Prof Alan Clough ... has an email address listed here, in case, you know, wanted to ask him a few questions to see what scientific information he is basing his claims off of... http://research.jcu.edu.au/portfolio/alan.clough (namely what conditioner does he use to get that silky smooth hair?)

1:09 - 1:18 - '[they are] consuming large amount of kava and just want to sleep - that's... very concerning'.... yeah man, people sleeping. Better stop that soon dude. Good work devoting your life to that.

and Kravatomill I can't help myself here and a lot of what you said is pretty decent but... you said "But when a group of people call themselves "Swedish", "Americans", or whatever you want, that's when the serious problem begins." .. like I totally get what you're saying but I think, we are different people. I mean, I consider myself American and not Japanese because of a lot of reasons, namely physical appearance and the fact I do not speak, write, or understand their language. Want to bring the world together? Get everyone speaking the same tongue.. Or think about how different languages could have originated. The Rosetta Stone may be a good starting place... or ending place, depending on your perspective. Our left brain needs order to make sense of chaos.
Kind of a agree really, and I didn't exactly meant it like that. I don't want languages to disappear. I would rather see everything being taken care of on a smaller scare. I'm no fan of Senior Bush Utopia New World Order. I would love a colorful world, with all the languages, dialects, accents surviving. One could say I would just want to take it down to "village level", or perhaps City level in our case.

I think the States got it pretty good, One nation, but still there are many states simply making their own laws and not always following the Federal laws straight lined. I more or less which this federal system of ours to be gone, and for people to have more freedom too move and choose where to call 'Home'. Sure, if you more to Comoros you better learn their way of life, just as if you go live on Tanna, not that Tanna should adapt all that we do, unless they want to.

But for huger countries and continents, I think we should have more or less the same "Kastom" separation and freedom, I mean, u like this and that style, things blablabla, then you obviously move to there and there. Now the world does have these elements, but the freedom to travel is very unequal. The western side can go almost anywhere. For a Pinoy to even leave their country they may be asked a lot of questions at their own Airport, even if going to a neighbor like Thailand. That's just wrong..
 
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Deactivated Account

How is it possible that Kava that works so great on most of the Melanesian and some Polynesian islands goes so bad in Australia? I simply can't understand how they are able to misuse something that's known for being hard to misuse to this extent..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-08/aboriginal-leaders-speak-out-about-kava-problems/4509536
I can only speak for my own. I had an importers lic to bring kava into Aust in the 90's & i used to bring in my own supply & had to sign a tight doc saying i was not to advertise it in any media or sell it into the Northern Territory Or Torres Strait. Yonks back…maybe 12-13 years ago i got a letter from the Aust Therapeutic Goods Admin saying that my kava importers lic was being revoked, no reason given.

I grew up in an Australian remote area with a lot of indigenous & also these days i visit Vanuatu twice a year & have mixed with both communities quite deeply, no finger pointing, just what i see. Australian aboriginals have a high welfare income & from what I've managed to find out, they mixed kava with alcohol (maybe to mask the taste) which still caused the same bloody problem as alcohol because alcohol can make people violent / sick & hospitalised …but now the govt had something else to point a finger at namely kava. In Vanuatu there isn't this welfare money, i.e. if you don't / can't work, you still get fed & sheltered however you don't have personal money. I can't profess any deep philosophical answer, I'm a simple tradesman but the Nivan community seems to have control of their heritage however the australian aboriginals had it taken from them with early australian settlement.

The irony here is that it was the Australian Govt that decided to bring kava to them in the first place. It was never part of their lives from dot.
 
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Deleted User01

Thanks for the info Nemo. Glad to see you back on the forum. (Man who walks like Crab). lol.
 

Doobie Doo

How many shells to get to the center..1 2 3
Interesting thread. Seems like Kava works where there are still relatively intact cultural and societal mechanisms to go along with it?
 

violet

Do all things with love
This is very telling of the chasm that exists between the Australian aboriginals and the modern culture. It sounds like they are being forced to integrate, but without the tools needed to succeed they unable to. Thus they lose their cultural roots in addition to becoming dependent on this culture that does not have a niche for them.
 
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Deactivated Account

Interesting thread. Seems like Kava works where there are still relatively intact cultural and societal mechanisms to go along with it?
Doobie you said in one sentence what i couldnt in an essay, lol …from how i see it, your exactly right.
 

Doobie Doo

How many shells to get to the center..1 2 3
Nemo, just a lucky observation / turn of phrase on my part. Too much Bronislaw Malinowski in college, for me I guess? Never even been to those places. From your photos and comments, seems you have better understanding than most so called experts.
 
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