Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
Looks we all need to get our systems, classifications, and intentions in order
I'm a living kava guinea pig (for how much longer only the shadow knows ) I have tried real tudei and it has indeed made me nausea with ill effects. So naturally I'm not interested in a product with those type of effects and therefore choose not to consume it. On the other hand I have personally used 11-year waka for over six months now and I have never once experienced any of the symptons or effects I had with the tudei. In fact I highly recommend to others this product for a great day time kava. The only problem I have with it, is that it seems to bring on dermo faster than other products.11 Year is not a "deviation", and certainly not the only kava that I (and others) have tested that fails acetone yet doesn't have DHM in the first three. As mentioned earlier, "Mita" (246351) is classified as two day both in "Origins" and in the Kava Act - and it fails acetone....
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have enjoyed our lively little discussion and have now gotten the feedback I was looking for in my Skunkworks project. I have a good feel now for the direction of my project. Cheers to you as well.I did read your proposal. You are suggesting dropping tudei and noble labels and propose focusing on chemotypes instead. I myself and others have explained here why such a system wouldn't be good enough for us. Vendors are free to listen to your proposal. We will see if their customers will agree that seeing 3 digits on a package is a sufficient sign of quality and purity or if they choose to buy those kavas that are certified to be noble and free of any other impurities....
Sounds great to me actually. Because the key element in 'my' system involved personal choice.Ok, let's give your approach a try. Here's where we stand so far:
By standards developed and verified by Dr. Lebot (orange coloration in acetone test equivalent to Isa), 11 Year Waka should not be consumed.
By standards developed by @HeadHodge (he has personally used this kava for six months without two day symptoms), Dr. Lebot is wrong and this kava is fine.
Dr. Lebot's results are based on laboratory tests of over 300 samples, comparing FK, KL, and acetone test coloration. His recommendations are based on these tests and the results of decades of testing and research, both objective and anecdotal. By using this system to select their kava, hundreds on this Forum have had positive results.
Headhodge's results are based on the personal experiences of one person, himself. His recommendations are based on five months of personal use alone, and are completely subjective. By using this system to select their kava, most have found themselves stumbling in the dark and experiencing totally unpredictable results.
And since you do make recommendations based on your system, here's some data you should add:
One tbsp knocked me out like I was drinking liquor. I felt drunk and went to sleep.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/thr...r-bula-kava-house-11-yr-waka.4931/#post-55430
You guys encounter any type of kava hangover with the 11yo micro waka? I tried some for the first time a couple of days ago and felt poorly for a couple of days
afterwards.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/new-11-year-waka-micronized.2971/page-7#post-44849
The next am was when I felt the hangover; work was a bummer...
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/new-11-year-waka-micronized.2971/page-8#post-45707
I haven't been able to finish mine for that exact reason. It's a shame given how expensive it is.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/new-11-year-waka-micronized.2971/page-8#post-45445
Yeah, ever since my first "Ginger" batch I have felt like complete crap the next day and even into the third day. I have zero energy, pass out half way through the day.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/hmmmm.4528/#post-50784
I can barely keep going or keep my eyes open on the next day. Lazy would be an understatement.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/hmmmm.4528/#post-50836
Not for a few days but definitely the next day and morning (I wake up for work at 5am) I feel weird like hung over but not actually. Slightly dehydrated but mostly
spacey and slow I guess.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/new-11-year-waka-micronized.2971/page-7#post-45008
I'm about a week and a half into drinking 11 year kava daily.
- Got nausea only my first time because I drank too much. Rest was fine.
- Stoned feeling right off the bat, very potent. Very alcohol-like feeling.
- Not as comfortable feeling as other kavas.
- Next day calmness, lingering effects.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/new-11-year-waka-micronized.2971/page-9#post-63139
I'm sorry, Headhodge, but in the end your system is reduced to precisely this: "I like this kava, so it is safe and effective. I don't care what anyone else says or thinks, they should listen to me because I am right."
If anyone wants to use this system, they are free to do so. But I don't think we're going to reject what we're doing and adopt it here.
Garry
plus I see no other data about 11-year waka other than you report it to test orange. I see no other FK numbers or anything else other than chemotype.Sounds great to me actually. Because the key element in 'my' system involved personal choice.
Why can't you produce any??Why do you need more data? ...
Again why can't you produce the data I'm looking for?Again, why do you need any? .
I would not call myself an 'anti-tester'. I'm actually all for it. But I disagree that chemotype has no role as being an indicator. I've demonstraed (successfully) in a preious post, that 90+ percent of the products that have tested orange are all bunched up in a single chemo category. I've used your data (that you provided awhile back) and I've used @Deleted User's test results as well. As far as the acetone test goes, I would say it can't really be refuted because there is a lack of information to do so. No one has any idea what even causes the color change let alone produce a coherent analysis of it's correlation to certain compounds. And I see no significant data, to convince me that those certain compounds are present in magnitudes that would produce any significant health effects. So I guess you can say that I'm not a non-believer but rather a skeptic. Possibly even a healthy skeptic....One more thing. Do some of you anti-testing guys believe that Lebot's tests are biased for some reason and are therefore null and void?...
I never said it was conclusive I simply said it's a good easy rule of thumb guideline that anyone can use. If you look at all the products in that list you'll see 100% of them have a chemotype, and under 20% have ever been tested with acetone. I'll continue to believe that blending changes the underlying chemotype until someone disproves that.@HeadHodge, 90 percent is not enough to say the word, "conclusive". It has to be 100 percent. Headgie, why don't we focus on the chemicals that are found predominately in Tudei and how kava can be tested for their presence. I don't believe that chemotypes are perfect plus what if a good chemotype is blended with tudei. What does that do? I know one thing, it puts more dangerous substances in a perfectly good bag of kava.