Accelerated heart rate/anxiety with kavain rich kavas

[alpaca]

Hello, this is my first post here but i've been lurking around the forums for years now. This forum has been more then helpful in regards to reliable vendors, chemotypes and understanding kava and its benefits.
I've been drinking kava for 4 years, with every experience being enjoyable and clear minded. I've tried nakamal@home, bula kava house, kavabyrex and cactus kava all with no side effects but normal dehydration and drowsiness. Kava has always improved my mood and completely eliminated anxiety.
To give a little background info, I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and when I was younger I heavily used pills, disassociates, and psychedelics out of curiosity and self medication. I also used to smoke 1 to 2 packs a day but now i've been smoke free for 7 months and still feed my nicotine addiction by switching to vaping. I've been clean from those aforementioned substances for over 2 years now and a year ago I decided to start heavily using cannabis again.
For the last 3 months almost every time i smoked, especially with higher sativa strains, i would have a panic attack, often to the point of causing chest pains, racing thoughts, accelerated heart beat, uncontrollable shakes, percieved irregular heart beat, sweatiness and in worst case scenarios, numbness or warmth on my left side. Every time I've made kava (cactus kava's eva and ono at the time) after experiencing this symptoms, the chest pains and anxiety were completely relieved. These panic attacks resulted in paranoia of a possible heart condition, which led me to visit my family cardiologist (my dad has afib, mom has bhp, and heart disease runs in the family.) I did not let the cardiologist know I was using cannabis. I'm only 19 and due to that my cardio told me the chest pains were due to either costochondritis or musculoskeletal. After that visit I decided stop smoking cannabis. I was put on a heart monitor for 2 weeks to make sure every thing is fine and today is my 3rd day on it. After that visit I decided to order kava again for my anxiety. I decided to switch it up a bit and look for a headier, kavain rich kava. Kalm with kava's fiji loa sounded perfect as a daytime kava. Today I decided to try it out with my normal prep method (7 table spoons with 4 cups split between me and my friend) after 2 shells right after each other I felt great, then after 3 minutes I felt krunker then usual (this is potent stuff lol) and felt my heart rate skyrocket. My pulse was 110, during my panic attacks on cannabis my heart rate is 120 - 130. I felt really anxious for 30 minutes trying to take deep breaths to slow my pulse and then the jittery effect of the kavain waned and then i felt the really good dihydrokavain-relaxed feeling i usually feel with kava. I still have a pound left of this stuff and want to enjoy it without the anxiety, I was wondering if any of you rootheads have any advice to prevent this feeling or similar experience.
bula!

 

[EQ]

Hello, this is my first post here but i've been lurking around the forums for years now. This forum has been more then helpful in regards to reliable vendors, chemotypes and understanding kava and its benefits.
I've been drinking kava for 4 years, with every experience being enjoyable and clear minded. I've tried nakamal@home, bula kava house, kavabyrex and cactus kava all with no side effects but normal dehydration and drowsiness. Kava has always improved my mood and completely eliminated anxiety.
To give a little background info, I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and when I was younger I heavily used pills, disassociates, and psychedelics out of curiosity and self medication. I've been clean from those aforementioned substances for over 2 years now and a year ago started heavily using cannabis.
For the last 3 months almost every time i smoked, especially with higher sativa strains, i would have a panic attack, often to the point of causing chest pains, racing thoughts, accelerated heart beat, uncontrollable shakes, perceived irregular heart beat, sweatiness and in worst case scenarios, numbness or warmth on my left side. Every time I've made kava (cactus kava's eva and ono at the time) after experiencing this symptoms, the chest pains and anxiety were completely relieved. (cactus kava's eva and ono) while
These panic attacks resulted in paranoia of a possible heart condition, which led me to visit my family cardiologist (my dad has afib, mom has bhp, and heart disease runs in the family.) I did not let the cardiologist know I was using cannabis. I'm only 19 and due to that my cardio told me the chest pains were due to either costochondritis or musculoskeletal. I was put on a heart monitor to make sure for 2 weeks and today is my 3rd day on it. After that visit I decided to order kava again for my anxiety. I decided to switch it up a bit and look for a headier, kavain rich kava. Kalm with kava's fiji loa sounded perfect as a daytime kava. Today I decided to try it out with my normal prep method (7 table spoons with 4 cups split between me and my friend) after 2 shells right after each other I felt great, then after 3 minutes I felt krunker then usual (this is potent stuff lol) and felt my heart rate skyrocket. My pulse at resting was 110, during my panic attacks on cannabis my heart rate is 120 - 130. I felt really anxious for 30 minutes trying to take deep breaths to slow my pulse and then the jittery effect of the kavain waned and then i felt the really good dihydrokavain-relaxed feeling i usually feel with kava. I still have a pound left of this stuff and want to enjoy it without the anxiety, I was wondering if any of you rootheads have any advice to prevent this feeling or similar experience.
bula!

OK.
Tell your doctors you smoke cannabis.
They aren't the law and generally go into health sciences because they have authentic care for people.

Next a 110 resting heart rate is atrocious.
Mine used to average 92. Now its in the low 60s. Due to changing my diet, meditating, and dropping my fat.

Next. This will never go away on it's own. The reason you get these symptoms is because you have this underlying subconscious worry of heart attacks. I had this too. Every time I'd toke up. I stayed clean from drugs for a good while and got my shit together. I became physically healthy, mentally healthy, dropped my heart rate, and lost that subconscious worry.

Address the inner worry, and make the changes to remove it.

 

[alpaca]

Thank you for the quick response! I forgot to mention in general when i'm having 0 symptoms of anxiety my resting heart rate is between 68 - 75. I'm 138 pounds and 6,1, i've been trying to eat healthier while trying to gain a little weight. I use to exercise and practice zazen meditation a while back but I need to make a routine out of it again.
btw nice username, l-theanine is great!

 

[EQ]

Thank you for the quick response! I forgot to mention in general when i'm having 0 symptoms of anxiety my resting heart rate is between 68 - 75. I'm 138 pounds and 6,1, i've been trying to eat healthier while trying to gain a little weight. I use to exercise and practice zazen meditation a while back but I need to make a routine out of it again.
btw nice username, l-theanine is great!

Well you seem to at a healthy size unless you meant 238. Just assure yourself there isn't reason to have this worry. It is very delusional to have heart worries. I used to freak out when I was mega blasted that I was having a heart attack. The mind just creates this pain. I started getting chest pains sober. Haven't had any chest pain in a year now. Once I asserted that fear of heart attacks was delusional I learned to let go when I felt the pain coming on. I think you described breathing slow when you get it comi g on? I did this too but get good at it. Hit absolute peace. With disciplined meditative ability you can overcome the fear and become the master of your mind. Not only this anxiety but the others that come into play that haunt your everyday.

I wish you well.

Side Note: Cannabis will increase heart rate, but don't let this worry you. It is natural and look how many people smoke up and turn over dying. None. Due to you knowing your heart rate averages I assume you check your pulse when you are blasted. Cut that out.

 

[krunkedout]

I was in almost the same boat as you, I used to smoke cannabis quite often but stopped due to anxiety and paranoia issues. Occasionally I will begin to get racing thoughts from the real heady kavas, but I usually stop and realize the reason I get those thoughts is because I automatically associate those "heady" types of feelings with cannabis, which became a big trigger for me. I haven't used THC in quite awhile now and I still deal with anxiety issues, it's really just one of those things you'll have to work through and learn to recognize your own illogical thought patterns and train yourself to have healthier, more logical ones. And also, understand what anxiety is, which is the bodies natural defense mechanism, which in the good ol' days would have been used to allow us to run away from tigers and what not. Since we don't have many genuine threats anymore, those of us with anxiety are actually just incredible survivalists in a world where we don't need our heightened senses! I definitely recommend you tell your doctor about your usage of cannabis, and I would also recommend you stop using it if it triggers anxiety. As to the kava, you may want to try some strains with a lower amount of kavain or start using much less of it.

 

[alpaca]

Wow you guys are great, I didn't expect to get such helpful responses within an hour of posting this lol. @TheanineLife I did mean 138 lol, i've always been on the skinny side. you've inspired me to start meditating again, after stopping regular meditation I forgot how strong the power of deep breathing and meditation is. And you are correct, I check my heart rate ALOT, at least 20 times a day lately. @krunkedout i forgot to mention, prior to drinking kava, i was in a relatively good mindset today spending my day off class listening jazz and surfing the web, with little to no anxiety today. right after the 2 shells I was having a conversation with my friend about how krunker than usual we were with the fiji loa and then boom, i felt shakey and checked my heart rate which was 110. It could be the possibility, like you mentioned of subconsciously associating heady feelings with the effects i get from sativas. but i've felt a raise in heart rate a few times in the past from kava without the anxiety. I was wondering, like cannabis, could kava harmlessly elevate the heart rate?

 

[krunkedout]

well one of the kavalactones, yangonin, acts on the CB1 receptors in the brain (the same receptors which THC acts on) so there is a possibility that kava, in some individuals, does increase heart rate. Ive noticed this from time to time, actually. I really wouldn't worry too much about your heart though, my friend.

 

[alpaca]

That definitely explains a lot, well now that you guys helped cleared my concern on the heart rate issue, i shall mix a shell of micronized pouni ono up and call it a night.
This forum is great. bula!

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Haha hope they helped enough but I'll chime in and say that instead of practicing meditation per se. As you sit and have a shell or smoke. Or even just sit a good half hour before you smoke or have a shell and practice dying .. just force yourself into the realization that you WILL die soon. Regardless of your heart. Keep going into this past the emotions that come up, sadness regret, a feeling of not yet.. just let it happen. Your not scared of having a heart attack your scared of dying .. enjoy

 

[violet]

I would agree that physiological responses can be psychological, but I also believe that our bodies are very good at telling us when something is physically amiss. While the advice to meditate can be very helpful, I would still recommend mindfulness to the cardiac symptoms (it doesn't have to be constant, just be aware if it does happen), especially given there is a family history of cardio issues.

To try pushing past these kinds of symptoms thinking they are "only in the head" could be irresponsible and dangerous. There are many physiological issues that can cause depression and anxiety that go beyond imbalances in hormones and neurotransmitters, which can necessitate medical treatment of the body to be able to correct the mental processes and accompanying physical symptoms.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Agreed @violet the meditation I recomend is not an escapist style... it's the opposite.. accepting death and living in that state allows non physical anxiety to dissapear aka anxiety that isn't real or neccesarry in a threat ... which would actually allow a more complete mindfulness of the real symptoms .. ya know?
Like if you take away the fake anxiety and there is a heart condition, then that will be very apparent... wow I feel conpletley at peace and yet my heart is bumping .. that's a sign .. but when tour caught up in fake anxiety you'll never know which is which.
If it weren't for the fact that I've been through this exact thing .. I am litterally the same body type as the OP.. and my family has had alot of heart issues .. on my dad's side Ecspecially .. which is where I got most of my "figure" from is my dad. And I can tell I have the same heart in a sense .. adrenal fatique ect ect.. he actually used to be addicted to snow. So that plays a role too
..
When I was taking K@ my heart would pound like crazy and same if I smoked.. I would start checking my pulse ect. Ect. Became practically a hypochondriac ..
Then as I quit K@ and starting using kava no longer smoking weed... what do you know my mind latches on to that.. now I'm freaking out cuz of kava... stuff like hanakapi was impossible for me to drink back then ... because my mind was still in that state .. so it latches on to whatever it can.
Like whomever up there said they started having heart feelings when there sober... this is what started happening to me and that's when I realized it was my ego/painbody using this as food for identification with form ... oh poor me who has these problems all the time.. I said with my intentions .. before to long, the victim identity took over and I was a walking problem... the only solution is peace. Get yourself fully checked out and then if nothing is wrong ... then you know it's just worry... even if there is something up with your heart... will worrying make it worse or better?

 

[violet]

I think mindfulness and meditation are great for all and essential to one's well being. In addition to that, as a separate but related issue I was simply saying that the root cause of what we often perceive as some sort of mental/spiritual/phsychological block or switch can often be a subtle physical ailment (imbalance, even) that needs to be physically addressed. Our bodies are very good at communicating with us if we allow it, and we could probably give our perception a little more credit when it comes to interpreting physiological responses.

 

[wormwood]

The rates of heartattacks in 19 year olds, let alone skinny 19 year olds, is astronomically low. Essentially unheard of without some genetic or congenital defect

 

[1 person]

I was in almost the same boat as you, I used to smoke cannabis quite often but stopped due to anxiety and paranoia issues. Occasionally I will begin to get racing thoughts from the real heady kavas, but I usually stop and realize the reason I get those thoughts is because I automatically associate those "heady" types of feelings with cannabis, which became a big trigger for me. I haven't used THC in quite awhile now and I still deal with anxiety issues, it's really just one of those things you'll have to work through and learn to recognize your own illogical thought patterns and train yourself to have healthier, more logical ones. And also, understand what anxiety is, which is the bodies natural defense mechanism, which in the good ol' days would have been used to allow us to run away from tigers and what not. Since we don't have many genuine threats anymore, those of us with anxiety are actually just incredible survivalists in a world where we don't need our heightened senses! I definitely recommend you tell your doctor about your usage of cannabis, and I would also recommend you stop using it if it triggers anxiety. As to the kava, you may want to try some strains with a lower amount of kavain or start using much less of it.

Wow, I'm in the exact same boat in terms of paranoia from weed. I drank a lot of some nangol noble from bkh last night(first time I drank kava) and felt the same thing, heart racing, anxiety, etc, but I think you're right, I'm just associating the feelings with that of cannabis. Hopefully I can get myself to realize that next time I drink it. I really like that view on anxiety, us naturally anxious people would be really fortunate if we were born a few thousand years ago!

 

[alpaca]

You guys have some of the best advice I have ever received in my life. Just an update on the situation, todays my 4th day off the mary, causing some underlying emotions i've been repressing to resurface. I decided to fearlessly try the fiji loa today with my friend and felt great! and after a few shells me and my friend had a very intellectual and therapeutic conversation about changes we need to make in our lives and i've found the root (no pun intended) of my anxiety. Thank mother nature for this root, every experience is so subtle and clear minded yet so profound and therapeutic. It really serves as a tool to separate the bullshit from reality and has helped me tremendously.

 

[B-Root]

just a thought, i know sometimes while drinking kava im able to hone in on my heart beat and it can be so intense at times that if its quite enough i believe i can hear it, although, i doubt that. If im startled for one reason or another, like a loud noise or something similar i get this quick rush that goes through me and its not pleasant, feels like adrenaline getting pumped through my body. Anyhow, just thought id share because i think it could be part of the reason some of us are are noticing these side effects. I could be entirely wrong at the same time.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah I feel you on this. @B-Root This is my honest opinion is you not thinking as much as usual .. it's an odd thing to be in the world without the constant thoughts taking up all of your consciousness. To have some left for the world and your self can be very eye opening.. weather it's a river far away that you hear all of a sudden, your own heartbeat or something as simple as never having noticed that clock your friend has had on the wall for years and it's colors are vibrant and it puts you in aw that you never noticed ... yes kava can show you all of this .. and yes kava is just putting you in your natural state .. that state kava puts us in is presence. Consciousness unburdened by thought

 

[spacegirlelt]

Although it's been repeated, I know it helps to get confirmation. Cannabis can raise heart rate exponentially, it's happened with me before, and I've had a slight increase in heart rate with kava but nothing major. As someone else who struggles with heart related worries as a part, I can confirm that anxiety does have a lot to do with residual symptoms. As others have suggested, tell your doctors you smoke pot. They will appreciate your honesty. At 19, unless you have a congential heart condition, things should smooth over well. I wish you the best of luck and if you need someone to discuss heart related anxiety with, feel free to message me.

 

[meme]

I can relate to the racing heart beat on kava. I don't have this problem with the micronized kalm with kava Pouni Ono. I'm still experimenting, but the root Boronguru that I have to make the old school way has made it hard to sleep at night due to the racing heartbeat. I've noticed that caffeine is a huge trigger when I drink kava, but by itself caffeine has never affected me that way. Now I have caffeine withdrawal headaches because I'd rather use the kava. I am a little worried though, I hope the racing heartbeat problem goes away completely, because other than that kava makes me feel so much less anxious and I really need that.

 

[YourOlePalAl]

We should have a forum rule that any time someone says "root," he can't follow it with "no pun intended." The pun is always intended.