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Addiction Diction

Prince Philip

Duke of Edinborogu
This post is inspired by a thread regarding using kava to ween oneself off of Xanax, and by Pep's wife giving him a hard time.

This idea may be the intellectual property of Jack Timprey and Rational Recovery.  I propose we use it when having medical discussions regarding the use of kava or other mood-altering substances, for the sake of clarity.

Addiction can only occur in the presence of ambivalence.  If a part of you wants to use kava, and a part of you wishes you could just quit, you're addicted.  Only the addicted person can say, "I am addicted."  It would be untrue to call me a kava addict.  I have no desire to stop using kava.

Chemical dependance means you can't stop, regardless of if you want to or not.  I sometimes think I can stop using kava, or use it much less often than I do, and the results are usually a Royal Pain in the Arse as PTSD and anxiety start ruling my life, and not in a nice constitutional monarchy way.  I am chemically dependent on kava, and I'm OK with that.  Some people are dependent on aspirin to avoid headaches.

Abuse is one of the hardest things to define.  If it was simply a portmandu of "abnormal use," we could leave it at that, but "abuse" carries pejorative connotations.  Essentially, abuse is "use I don't like."  I try to stay away from this term, although I will say that manufacturing kava in a way that is totally contrary to Kastom, e.g. dried kava leaf tea, would be abuse of kava.  You can call me a kava abuser because I drink so much of it, or because I drink it before 4:20pm at times, or because I sometimes use extracts or lollies, or because I sometimes drive under the calming influence of kava (making me a calmer, more stable driver, instead of a road-raging Duke of Hazard).

When people say "kava is not addictive," they mean that kava does not cause physical dependance.  When I say "Kava is not addictive," I mean I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to stop using kava unless they have a serious allergy.

I hope these linguistic guidelines will help add clarity to conversations involving these somewhat uncomfortable topics.
 

kl.pep4848

Kava Curious
nice post. I suppose i'm 'addicted' in that I don't want to stop (even though my wife is on my ass more than ever). I guess it stems with the fact that her mom was an alchoholic and my wife can't figure out this way of life. I told her though the only drawbacks to me on KAVA is the fact that if i drink too much, i get wobbly eyed, and maybe a bit unmotivated the next day. In my experience, having tried many different substances, this is not a bad trade off.
 

Ed!

Kava Enthusiast
Addiction vs. abuse is something I've put a lot of thought on regarding alcohol. My wife was convinced I was an alcoholic because I went overboard too often (which "too often" for her wasn't really all that often, it was just highly visible). I denied that label, knowing that I have no chemical dependence. I eventually learned that addiction vs. abuse distinction, and was able to confidently admit that I was an alcohol abuser. It's a pretty huge distinction, so I'm glad you bring it up.



I'm not sure kava creates any kind of chemical dependence, but I will say that many of us may be mentally addicted to kava the same way some people can become addicted to food. There is probably some manner of chemical response for everything we put in ourselves, so I guess the distinction gets a bit muddy, but I think it's the difference between being addicted to nicotine and being addicted to "smoking"... being addicted to smoking includes a lot of mental things, like just having something in your hand to mess with or going through the ritual of smoking. I'm sure you can get addicted to kava, but I'm not sure it's chemical. You're not going to go through withdrawals when you quit.



Kava abuse I think is also a lot harder to come by than any other substance. Alcohol is really easy to abuse because the negative side-effects are so huge. If you drink until you black out and are walking dead the next day then obviously you've abused alcohol. I might try to argue that you can't abuse kava, it's not possible, because the negatives are just so minimal, and kava itself seems to make you slow down. I think you can abuse it though. If you drink kava until you throw up, then yeah, that's probably kava abuse. You might also consider it kava abuse if you drink so often that your skin cracks and your eyes get bloodshot, but I think that gets subjective when you start talking about long-term consequences. If I gorge on candy until I puke then I abused candy surely, but if I eat chocolate so regularly that I get fat am I a candy abuser? Maybe if I eat enough to get diabetes from it.



Caffeine is something I would say you can easily become an addict, but not so easily an abuser. I think alcohol is very easily abused and addicting. Nicotine is addicting, but I don't know if I'd say you can be a nicotine abuser. Marijuana, abuse but not as addicting. Kava I would say isn't high on either.
 

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
Hmmm....I don't really know what to say.



I see where you're coming from Prince.



I don't know what I'd call myself. I hardly even think about it and no one seems to even notice anymore. Sometimes I forget to have any kava until I have an "uh oh" moment. I'll have a moderate anxiety attack, or be in a group of people and suddenly feel the environment constrict around me. That's when it'll hit me... "oh crap! I forgot to have some kava for the past 2-2.5 weeks!" Kava candy has saved my rear end on more than a couple occasions when I've been forgetful.



People have asked me "Could you" or "what if you stopped kava"? That whole addiction thing does come up when they find out how long I've been using it.I tell them I don't seek out opportunities to use kava and I forget to have any every now and then. When I forget my social anxiety lets me know it's slipped my mind. Addiction? I don't know. Maybe my social anxiety is addicted to it. Maybe I'm just using it to justify using kava. I don't oppose letting people judge for themselves wither I'm addicted or not. At the end of the day I'm not on prescription medication and I'm not ashamed to show and even share what kava is.
 

uuku pi

Kava Enthusiast
When I drink kava I feel better emotionally . Even though I am as old as dirt ...I have intolerance to Incongruence...I find it intolerable to be saturated in incongruence. So many situations in my life can only be described by this phrase. I think social anxiety is a valid reaction to the bullshit of modern life. This is why most people drink. I like me better on kava . I do not say as many blunt stupid things. HOWEVER in some ways I am more of an asshole..just not an angry one. I have thrown up from too much kava and I now pay strick attention to my consumption. I may be an emotional addict. I used to drink a LOT of coffee ..now I don't. Tea tastes better now. Kava seems to be a self-governing drug. It makes you smarter.
 

Buddhacide

Kava Enthusiast
I think some of us just need to use something. Kava is one the least harmful somethings imo. FWIW i've never had a problem taking a break from kava.
 

Prince Philip

Duke of Edinborogu
Buddhacide said:
I think some of us just need to use something. Kava is one the least harmful somethings imo.
To a certain point, non-chemical interventions will be safer than anything involving chemistry.  E.g., psuedoephedrine restricts blood flow everywhere, not just in nasal tissue, but a neti pot is just flushing your nasal system with salt water.

I've recently been dealing with PTSD flare-up due to the world sucking.  While I have increased the dosage and frequency of kava usage, I have also added "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic."  I try to limit myself to one episode per day.  Not the easiest thing to do.
 

krunkedout

Kava Lover
Prince Philip said:
Buddhacide said:
I think some of us just need to use something. Kava is one the least harmful somethings imo.
To a certain point, non-chemical interventions will be safer than anything involving chemistry.  E.g., psuedoephedrine restricts blood flow everywhere, not just in nasal tissue, but a neti pot is just flushing your nasal system with salt water.

I've recently been dealing with PTSD flare-up due to the world sucking.  While I have increased the dosage and frequency of kava usage, I have also added "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic."  I try to limit myself to one episode per day.  Not the easiest thing to do.
might I also recommend adventure time to your royal kavaness
 

Ed!

Kava Enthusiast
Krunkedout said:
Prince Philip said:
Buddhacide said:
I think some of us just need to use something. Kava is one the least harmful somethings imo.
To a certain point, non-chemical interventions will be safer than anything involving chemistry.  E.g., psuedoephedrine restricts blood flow everywhere, not just in nasal tissue, but a neti pot is just flushing your nasal system with salt water.

I've recently been dealing with PTSD flare-up due to the world sucking.  While I have increased the dosage and frequency of kava usage, I have also added "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic."  I try to limit myself to one episode per day.  Not the easiest thing to do.
might I also recommend adventure time to your royal kavaness
Agreed. It's ALGEBRAIC!
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Well, perhaps I can provide a bit of perspective on this. When I moved to Ghana, I burned through my Kava pretty quick. I had a few good weeks and then a stressful week, where I caved in and bought some Diazepam (read: valium) from the pharmacy. It blew my mind. Not in a good way, but in a "holy shit this stuff turns me off to everything and allows me to forget that pain exists." I started taking it every other day, then every day, and then I simply couldn't last a full day (let alone sleep at night) without it. When I finally decided to turn the tap off (my pharmacist asked me, in the local language, "why do you take this medicine that once made a woman forget her loves?") it was a grueling experience. The only thing I could do was drink copious amounts of alcohol to prepare for bed, and even then I was irritable and confused.



When I lived in the States, I drank Kava sometimes every day, sometimes once a week, and sometimes once a month. It didn't matter either way. It was there in times of need and gave me some respite. But when it wasn't there I wasn't tearing my hair out - I'd go for a jog or drink some Chamomile tea. Addictive substances aren't at all like that. They turn you into a fiend - a monster, a mad person, an actor impersonating yourself. Kava doesn't do that. It leaves you who are but takes the edge off of bad situation. It doesn't fundamentally change who you are as a person, but it can improve your quality of life without making you dependent on it.



As a footnote, it would be helpful to mention that Kava has almost no side effects. Valium: memory loss, depression, addiction, tolerance-building. Alcohol: too many to list, but most end in death if you keep upping the ante.
 

kl.pjim

Kava Curious
This is one of the best and most honest threads on this forum. Not only are grown adults unashamed to openly admit and confront their weaknesses, they also confess to a fondness for My Little Pony. My two girls have seen every episode and I have to say it is one of their favorites.
 

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
This is an interesting thread. I have noticed that kava doesn't really seem to mess around with the reward center of your brain the same way other substances, even food do.
 

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
Mmmm potato chips... *snorts them*


and not that "oven baked" nonsense...I'm talkin about the deep fried salty ones that hook ya first crunch...the "good stuff"...
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Man you ain't never lived till you rig up a bag of salt n' vinegars. Just kidding they're much better via oral administration but an addict can be addicted to literally anything. I'm first in line if they ever develop a pharmaceutical cure for it. Although kava has been my natural cure, so I ain't mad.
 

Ecto

Train by day, Kava by night....All day
Just my 2 cents. I'm an alcoholic and have been for quite some time. I've been sober for a little over a month now and I almost broke down and bought a case of beer tonight. I literally had my shoes on with my keys in my hand and said to myself "I know this is a terrible idea. I will make myself a few shells of Kava, and if I still want to go buy that beer I will allow myself to go". Needless to say I'm sitting here on the couch right now with the comforting feeling of Kava.....and I was able to tack on another day without drinking.


Not trying to pass this off as medical advice (it's not) but if I didn't have that Kava on hand I would probably be 8 beers deep right about now. How I feel about Kava is pretty much how I feel about Electronic Cigarettes. I may still be doing something that may now be 100% completely "straight edge" but they are both SO much better for my body and my mind that I can't imagine living the way I used to anymore.


Truly a miracle in my mind.
 

kl.billbryan

Kava Curious
Thanks great to hear Etco. It is not easy at all, but it can be done. If I can do it I think almost anyone can do it! But the bottom line is that you have to be 100% sure you want to stop and stop for yourself or trying to quit will be a waste of time.


It will be my 13 month mark in 2 days now and my life is just so much better now. All of my relationships with the family, my close friends and especially my fiance have grown stronger than ever before. Even though life is not close to perfect for me right now, I am as happy and content with life for the first time an many years. I walk down the street now and realize how great life is, how beautifully blue the sky is and best yet do not think about picking up ever. If anything if I see people drinking around me it just reinforces my desire not to do it since I do not want to end up acting like a moron, feeling bad and guilty about the damage I may have caused myself and others the night before. Now I am not saying that booze is bad for all people but for an addict like me, well it had the power of turning me into somebody that was not me as I see myself.


Hang in there dude, like I said it is NOT easy AT ALL especially if you were at it for many years like myself. For me it was around the 4 month mark when I started to feel much better. I started to realize how much happier I was in many ways. I was able to save lots of cash so no more problems with late bill payments, I started sleeping better than I can ever remember sleeping in my life, all of my relationships become stronger and most importantly I just started to enjoy life so much more, I felt reborn almost!


Life is just so much easier now that I do not have do deal with my day to day addiction, much less chaotic. Think about it, life is too hard on its own and can throw you a lot of curve balls when you least expect it and drinking is just like making you crippled giving yourself a handicap and making life that much harder to deal with.
 

Ecto

Train by day, Kava by night....All day
Thanks for the kind words billbryan. It certainly hasn't been easy...but then again nothing worth doing is easy.
 
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