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an introduction

kl.Modernaught

Kava Curious
Hello all!
I'm very glad to have discovered this forum. I’ve been lurking a bit and
have found this to be a great resource for reviews and brewing techniques. I’ve
unfortunately wasted quite a bit of good root before finding my way here but at
least now I pretty much know what I’m doing on account of the contributions
made here. Thanks!
I suppose I may as well give myself a short introduction. My name is Robert.
I very much enjoy the giddy euphoria that kava sometimes provides but mostly I
use it to produce a superbly relaxed state of body and mind. I’m a staunch
insomniac, and while kava rarely puts me to sleep, it aids me in finding a serene,
meditative state. A night of restful half-sleep is better than wakefulness
anytime, so there’s that.
I look forward to being more active on these forums. Thanks for reading this
and I’ll see you around.
 

Buddhacide

Kava Enthusiast
Hey Robert, I have bad insomnia too. Welcome aboard. I find the key with kava is to do it several hours before bed time. But otherwise engage in all your normal "sleep hygene". Its a not a cure all, but it definitely helps me sleep through the night a lot of the time.
 

kl.new2kava

Kava Enthusiast
Welcome aboard! I fit the same type of description as you in terms of insomnia and reasons for kava enjoyment. I've found that a high DHM kava will make me extremely sleepy and pass out during the day but at night will just mess me up real hard and make me go to the bathroom a hundred times and by the time I've taken my last wizz the effects have worn off.
 

Paradise Kava

Honolulu, HI
Kava Vendor
Welcome Robert,

I believe there are kavas that really put people to sleep.

It's finding that right one for your body and then consuming enough of it to create what I call the "past a few shells" effect.

While drinking kava people are talking and drinking kava at first and then BAM! ....they get past those first few quick shells, and everyone's gotten a bit quieter, heads are starting to droop a bit and a slower pace of passing the shell comes into effect. Before you know it, people are tapping out.

Places like Samoa, Tonga etc, you'll find people curled around the tanoa after drinking kava! Knocked out pretty good for the night . lol!

Hope you find solutions for your insomnia and welcome aboard~!
 

kl.Modernaught

Kava Curious
Thanks for the welcomes!



paradisekava: I first introduced myself to kava in search of yet another sleep aid. It has definitely helped from time to time but in cases of insomnia like mine and a couple others who have posted (I assume), we can be quite incapacitated by all manner of substances while the brain continues volleying around silly thoughts and ideas no matter what. I could take the knock-out pills but I'd rather not. I've come to terms with my inability to actually sleep, so what I look for in kava is simply a peaceful daze. I haven't tried your product yet but I'm absolutely interested. High DHM would be my preferred if you could give me a suggestion.



new2kava: exactly! if I have a strong kava mid-day I will nap easily but if I have a cup or few at night it's just buzz city and I want to read a book until sunrise... while re-upping that feeling every 30-60 minutes. what brands are you liking best these days? what else do you take or do for sleep?



buddhacide: when kava works for sleep it's absolutely amazing. I wake up feeling incredible and amazed at the number of hours I've spent snoozing. I definitely keep my "sleep hygiene" regimen intact so long as I'm not so clobbered that I forget. This includes 5-HTP, valerian, some sleep-time yoga - sometimes I add benadryl and sometimes I add melatonin. I'm curious as to which kavas you are currently digging and what other tactics you employ for restful sleep.


 I've just ordered N@H's Wow! which I expect to arrive monday-ish. I've tried their Chief's Jungle and Stone. Both have a grass-like flavor that I'm really not thrilled about, but their products are so far my favorite in terms of effect. I'm also a big fan of Bula Kava House's products Melo-Melo and especially Fu'u.
 

Buddhacide

Kava Enthusiast
new2kava wrote:Welcome aboard! I fit the same type of description as you in terms of insomnia and reasons for kava enjoyment. I've found that a high DHM kava will make me extremely sleepy and pass out during the day but at night will just mess me up real hard and make me go to the bathroom a hundred times and by the time I've taken my last wizz the effects have worn off.
   Ha, funny I took some tudei late Saturday and this was my exact experience. It prevented me from sleeping well, and I spent basically all night and all the next day needing to go to the bathroom every two minutes. The previous times I did not have this experience. It may have to do with how late I took it (around 11:00pm). I normally take kava early, around 6:00 and then by time I want to sleep its usually not a problem and I sleep deeply. But lesson learned.

Robert, I have been really enjoying KBR's Fiji Waka. I have not tried Boroguru yet, but its on my list for my next round of ordering.

PS, Robert that other list of supplements you are using. I have personally found all of them to further dispupt the quality of my sleep. For me, insomnia isnt about getting sleepy. Its about part of my brian seemingly refusing to engage in deep sleep, even though I am in bed and exhausted. I am like you and have tried everything under the sun. However, despite that these supplements seem to have certain effects in "normal" people, I find them more disruptive to sleeping - deep sleep in particular. SOmething you may want to consider.

FYI, I have found that sublingual remeron "as needed" provides the best relief from the sort of insomnia I suffer from. Because kava is an MAO inhibitor, you need to be cautious of how much you use. But I take the remeron 4 times a week or so and the kava seems to work with it very well.
 

kl.ComfortablyNumb

Kava Curious
The very popular Vanuatu that you like chemotype examples are--246531 & 426135-- have dihydrokavain, kavain & methysticin as the first three lactones.


If I had to guess the chemotype I’d guess Solomon’s & Nuigini's (PNG) would be more like a 462351 or 465321 Legend: 1) demethoxy-yangonin (DMY); 2) dihydrokavain (DHK); 3) yangonin (Y); 4) kavain (K); 5) dihydromethysticin (DHM); & 6) methysticin (M). First three kavalactones in chemotype code for the chemotype represent 70+% of total kavalactone content.
 
Kavalactone specific attributes,  the DHK & DHM, in unusual, less-popular strains -- seem to be the chemicals that make for “two-day” (tudei) effects and for nausea. Kavain (hi-% desirable) is most quickly absorbed & its relaxant/anti-depressant effect goes most quickly to mind/body; numbing. Others: Methysticin is noted as “Slow; Sleepiness, muscle relaxant”. DMY & Y seem to be somewhat of a mystery. Also, sum is greater than the parts of the whole.

Solomon’s Island variety was a creeper variety; quite (most) possibly whicamanii variant, because it was in the growing range of that wild variety, with chemotype possibly closer to NAH’s Chief’s Jungle. Naka's Chief’s Jungle prob. has more DHK/DHM (“2” or “5” in chemotype) because there is that tudei/ nausea effect. Solomon’s has something that either minimizes that or has a different predominant kavalactone combo.
 
By the way, I love the Hawaiian Kava or Awa! :) History and cultivars fascinates me. Categorizes different kinds of Hawaiian Awa.

They also list 18 varieties with various chemotypes. I found the key for the Various Kavalactones:
~~~~~~~1 Demethoxy-yangonin (DMY)
~~~~~~~2 Dihydrokavain (DHK)
~~~~~~~3 Yangonin
~~~~~~~4 Kavain
~~~~~~~5 Dihydromethysticin (DHM)
~~~~~~~6 Methysticin
~~So, the chemotype code is as such -- going back to the maui kava page -- a "463251" plant, would have the highest #4 (Kavain; considered the most euphoriant kavalactone) and the lowest #1 (Demethoxy-yangonin (DMY)). Here are some others:
~~~~~~~463251: Papa Kea, Honokane'iki, Mo'i, Papa ele'ele, Papa ele'ele Pu'upu'u, Rahmedal, Rahmwager, Samoan
~~~~~~~462351: Hiwa, *Kuma Kua (Mine, fresh Puna Green), Mapulehu, Nene
~~~~~~~246531: Isa
~~~~~~~461235: Mahakea
~~~~~~~423651: Hanakapi'ai
~~~~~~~463215: Panaewa, Opihikao

The lore of these types and traditional usages is as useful information as the chemotype and of course, but personal experience is probably the most important.
Technical Data on the Origin of Kava:
    In the early 1980s, Vanuatu produced strong circumstantial evidence for supposing that domestication of kava occurred in Vanuatu and subsequent publications bring the work to a conclusion. In a latter publication (1989) the evidence is more direct and powerful than that which argues that kava might have been domesticated elsewhere in Melanesia and seems to favour Papua new Guinea in this respect.
    There is a much greater range in Vanuatu than anywhere else of kava varieties and that these varieties were usually more potent chemically than those from elsewhere (e.g., total kavalactone analyses of Vanuatu kavas were two to five times that of common Fijian varieties). The chemical analyses were also quite diverse. Equally significantly, the name for kava in local languages was as diverse as nigui (Hiw, Torres Is), maloku (Marino, Maewo), mele (Sa, South Pentecost), bir (Tur, Santo), hae (Malo), nimvulum (South West Bay, Malekula), nikawa (Kwamera, Tanna), kava (Aneityum) to select some. This suggests an origin more ancient than in Fiji or Polynesia. Only the last two of these names are cognate with the Polynesian kava. These occur in the south and it is quite likely that they were introduced there from Polynesia. 
    The results of extensive analysis of many kavas using three means: morphotypes, chemotypes and zymotypes. Morphotypes are essentially varieties, distinguished by physical characteristics. Chemotypes are groupings made on the basis of the chemical analysis of the kavalactones, the active substances in kava. Zymotypes are distinctions made on fundamental genetic characteristics; this kind of analysis can be loosely termed genetic finger-printing.  
    Although it can be said that these studies were not exhaustive of every kava extant, they range so widely and so much further than any other that their results are compelling. They reach a conclusion almost impossible to deny.
    Some two-thirds of the morphotypes studied are found in Vanuatu and nowhere else. Of the eight chemotypes, six are present in Vanuatu and in no other place are there more than three: in Samoa alone were three recorded; in the rest of Polynesia one or two, and in Fiji one. The distribution of zymotypes is still more persuasive. There are ten of them, of which seven are Piper wichmanii ("wild" kava) and three are Piper methysticum ("cultivated" kava). Five of the "wild" kavas were found only in Papua New Guinea. All but one of these are genetically remote from domesticated kava. The two "wild" kavas not found in Papua new Guinea are found in Vanuatu (and one is found in the Solomon Islands) and these are genetically the closest to "cultivated" kava. No "wild" kavas were found in Polynesia or Micronesia.
    The distribution of the three "cultivated" zymotypes also points to domestication's having occurred in Vanuatu. One occurs only in northern Papua New Guinea and is of minor significance. The other two occur in Vanuatu. One of these appears also in southern Papua New Guinea. The other is the sole genetic type occurring in Fiji, Polynesia and Micronesia. 
    It is difficult to find any grounds for doubting the conclusion that kava was domesticated in Vanuatu. The kava to be found in Fiji and Polynesia is the result of a thin trickle of varieties out of Vanuatu. This reflects the testimony of Firth's record. Just where Vanuatu domestication occurred is still conjectural but the evidence points to northern Vanuatu, possibly Maewo island.
 
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