Health Monitoring Blood work / liver panel / lab results

[El Guapo510]

Ok, so I had to find a new doctor because my old one retired. Upon my intiial visit, they wanted to do blood work so I am posting this here. Brief background, I'm healthy, mid 30's, semi regular kava drinker (4-5 days a week) last 8 months, occasional alcohol use, I do take the following prescription/herbal medicine:
Propranolol: 10mg 3 times/day
Omeprazole: 10 mg every 2 days
Ashwaghanda: 800mg/day
CBD oil: 20mg 1-2 times/week


Here are my metabolic /liver results (I am only posting the relevant ones to save time but if curious of other numbers, you can ask)

BUN/Creatinine: 11 (7-25 normal)
Albumin: 5.4 (3.5-5.4 normal)
Bilirubin: 0.5 (0.1-1.2 normal)
Alkaline Phosphate: 55 (39-117 normal)
AST: 28 (1-40 normal)
ALT: 39 (1-41 normal)
A1C: 5.3 (4.8-5.6)

All other numbers are normal except for cholesterol which was a little high but they took it mid-day after I had already eaten so not sure how accurate that is. My albumin was the only other borderline one but they didn't seem to care much about it.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

 

[Blackice71]

as of 1/24/19 also note I take large daily doses of a chemotherapy drug known to be hepatotoxic. Still looks good.


Glucose 128 mg/dL 65 - 140 mg/dL
REFERENCE RANGE STATED IS FOR RANDOM GLUCOSE. FASTING GLUCOSE REF RANGE IS 65 TO 100 mg/dL.
BUN, Bld 12 mg/dL 9 - 20 mg/dL
Creatinine Serum 0.7 mg/dL 0.66 - 1.25 mg/dL
Calcium 9.3 MG/DL 8.4 - 10.2 MG/DL
Sodium 139 MMOL/L 137 - 145 MMOL/L
Potassium 3.8 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.1 mmol/L
Chloride 105 mmol/L 98 - 109 mmol/L
CO2 28 mmol/L 22 - 30 mmol/L
Protein, Total 6.3 g/dL 6.3 - 8.2 g/dL
Albumin 4.0 GM/DL 3.5 - 5.0 GM/DL
Total Bilirubin 0.5 MG/DL 0.2 - 1.3 MG/DL
Alkaline Phosphatase 49 U/L 38 - 126 U/L
AST 21 U/L 17 - 59 U/L
ALT (SGPT) 32 U/L 21 - 72 U/L
eGFR >60 mL/min/1.73 m2 >59 mL/min/1.73 m2
If patient is African American, multiply eGFR by 1.210.
Anion Gap 10.7 mmol/L 10 - 20 mmol/L
Globulin 2.3 g/dL g/dL
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 1.7 1.1 - 2.2

I am also a cancer patient. 4 months off of chemo. Just started Kava, quitting alcohol. I've read the concerns about liver toxicity and am a bit concerned.

 

[Groggy]

I did another check up this past May;

ALBUMIN 3.5-5.0 / 4.8

GLOBULIN 1.5-4.5 / 3.4

TOTAL BILIRUBIN 0.2-1.3 / 0.6


SGOT (AST) 5-50 / 28
SGPT (ALT) <50 U/L / 35

Drinking kava heavily for 5 years, never had an issue.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I am also a cancer patient. 4 months off of chemo. Just started Kava, quitting alcohol. I've read the concerns about liver toxicity and am a bit concerned.

There can be concerns if your liver is compromised in any way. You would want to talk to your oncologist and make sure they’re on board with it. That being said, kava was how I’ve gotten this far. It kept me healthy and kept me sane and it also helped me cope with pain. I shudder to think what this would have been like without it.

 

[Blackice71]

Thanks. I would think it's better than alcohol at least. Well I hope.

 

[Precipitated]

I just recently started drinking Kava. These are my results after drinking Kava everyday for a month.

ALT - <9 U/l (norm < 41 U/l)
GGT -17 U/l (norm< 73 U/l)
ALP - 67 U/l ( norm 53 - 128 U/l)
Bilirubin - <2 µmol/l (norm < 5 µmol/l)
eGFR - 106.78 ml/min/1,73m2 (norm > 90 ml/min/1,73m2 )
INR - 1.08 (norm 0.85 - 1.25)
PT - 97.6 % (norm 70 - 130 %)

 

[mlenny]

Come on, let's be fair guys. The data and warning weren't meant the way some of us are taking it. They never said "everybody" or "guarantee" or "dose-dependent". Good for me isn't good for you isn't good for him isn't good for her. The reactions so far have been both idiosyncratic (unpredictable, random) and independent of the amount consumed. Is it indisputably a very low risk? Yes. But that isn't an excuse to fire a missile up science's ass. It is only a concern. And we would be in a horrible world if the medical and scientific community didn't maintain vigilant watch on these things (think thalidomide). I drink kava and therefore I choose to take on the uncertainty, as do you. But attacking the system put in place to protect us isn't the way to go about voicing our thoughts/frustrations.

 

[The Kap'n]

Come on, let's be fair guys. The data and warning weren't meant the way some of us are taking it. They never said "everybody" or "guarantee" or "dose-dependent". Good for me isn't good for you isn't good for him isn't good for her. The reactions so far have been both idiosyncratic (unpredictable, random) and independent of the amount consumed. Is it indisputably a very low risk? Yes. But that isn't an excuse to fire a missile up science's ass. It is only a concern. And we would be in a horrible world if the medical and scientific community didn't maintain vigilant watch on these things (think thalidomide). I drink kava and therefore I choose to take on the uncertainty, as do you. But attacking the system put in place to protect us isn't the way to go about voicing our thoughts/frustrations.

Which post are you referring to here?

 

[mlenny]

Which post are you referring to here?

One a ways back. But my thoughts aren't worth further discussion, really.

 

[Manuel Joao]

Here are my results, good to know I'm all clear for more

 

[mlenny]

Let's be careful here. Liver reactions to kava are idiosyncratic and immunoallergic in nature. You being fine therefore doesn't mean anything for other people. It only happens to random, unpredictable individuals independent of dose. That being said, it usually does set in relatively quickly in people who will have a problem. Your values being good means nothing in terms of safety for anyone else. You may have never had an allergic reaction to latex, peanuts, or penicillin, but that doesn't mean nobody can. It just means you were luckier.

 

[BobBriggs]

Come on, let's be fair guys. The data and warning weren't meant the way some of us are taking it. They never said "everybody" or "guarantee" or "dose-dependent". Good for me isn't good for you isn't good for him isn't good for her. The reactions so far have been both idiosyncratic (unpredictable, random) and independent of the amount consumed. Is it indisputably a very low risk? Yes. But that isn't an excuse to fire a missile up science's ass. It is only a concern. And we would be in a horrible world if the medical and scientific community didn't maintain vigilant watch on these things (think thalidomide). I drink kava and therefore I choose to take on the uncertainty, as do you. But attacking the system put in place to protect us isn't the way to go about voicing our thoughts/frustrations.

For me the issue is when the concerns of health experts aren't weighed against other considerations. This is definitely what happens in Australia with the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration). The health experts and bureaucrats there set next to no store by the individual's right to enjoy moderate intoxication or non-prescription stress and anxiety relief. So even vague suspicions about a substance can see it restricted, let alone when there's real, but generally moderate and manageable, risks. Australia has banned or restricted kava, K@, phenibut, khat, betel nut all because of this mindset. I'm not saying we should legalise heroin or meth, but I definitely think much greater emphasis should be put on informed individual responsibility.

 

[Cuzzie]

Thank you for sharing. Again another great result from someone who can put down some kava. I am confident that it does not affect your liver, and if you were an alcohol drinker prior to drinking kava, your LFT can actually decrease due to the lack of alcohol. And your cholesterol was good too. What was your LDL? I think the cholesterol thing is dependent on diet, exercise, and also genetics and not kava. I have high cholesterol in my family and during the time of my recent testing, my higher LDL could have been because I was not exercising as much. I told my doctor that I was going to start testing in the summer when I was most active. Regardless, I think the high cholesterol thing is just an assortment (median) of people with naturally high cholesterol. Call it coincidence or whatever, but I just don't think 4-5 tbs of kava a night is going to cause that. Much less, 12 tbs. I could be wrong.

Westernized medicine is a witch hunt for anything not approved by the FDA.

I’ve been doing a lot of research regarding cholesterol because I’ve always had high triglycerides and low hdl despite considering myself to be very healthy. Regarding ldl, from what I’ve read/watched it’s not necessarily bad - it depends on the particle size and you can have your doc test for this. High ldl with large particles isn’t dangerous, whereas high ldl with smaller particles is dangerous. So there are lots of nuances that most doctors don’t even know to test for. Just my amateur feedback after reading a few books on the topic but maybe that’s helpful. I’m currently following dr Eric bergs keto and intermittent fasting guidance and that is helping my cholesterol. He has videos on every topic imagninable so check him out on YouTube if you’re curious.

 

[Jacob Bula]

Let's be careful here. Liver reactions to kava are idiosyncratic and immunoallergic in nature. You being fine therefore doesn't mean anything for other people. It only happens to random, unpredictable individuals independent of dose. That being said, it usually does set in relatively quickly in people who will have a problem. Your values being good means nothing in terms of safety for anyone else. You may have never had an allergic reaction to latex, peanuts, or penicillin, but that doesn't mean nobody can. It just means you were luckier.

I believe that the liver warnings were from when there were poorly made extracts in the 90s made from questionable source material that may have included toxic, above ground, parts of the plant and/or non -daily drinking varieties of the plant. As far as drinking traditional, noble kava you should be fine, unless you have a compromised liver, because your liver does process kava. The same could be said for almost all supplements though, so that's more of a liver problem than a kava problem. Also allergic reactions can trigger autoimmune responses from almost all foreign substances we put in our body, with few exceptions.

I believe in science. I have a Bachelors of Science from VCU, although not one related to health; however I believe the point of this thread is to support the growing science that in general Noble, traditional. Kava which has been drunk every day is generally safe for your liver. The problem is when people cite good science that was done with a different set of data from which we have today to explain the risks of drinking today.

 

[The Kap'n]

Let's be careful here. Liver reactions to kava are idiosyncratic and immunoallergic in nature. You being fine therefore doesn't mean anything for other people. It only happens to random, unpredictable individuals independent of dose. That being said, it usually does set in relatively quickly in people who will have a problem. Your values being good means nothing in terms of safety for anyone else. You may have never had an allergic reaction to latex, peanuts, or penicillin, but that doesn't mean nobody can. It just means you were luckier.

I see what you're saying here. Took me a minute. Idiosyncratic reactions don't care whether we've seen 10,000 good liver tests. Be that as it may, that type of reaction is extremely rare. When I say extremely rare I mean it's almost naught. Out of the liver toxicity issues, only one single instance was able to be traced to idiosyncratic reactions [1]. What we're trying to do here in this thread is lay the groundwork for those that are drinking kava with no reactions, but still are concerned about liver health.

@mlenny also let me know of my mistake. I called liver injury a "rumor". This is incorrect. This leaves no room for idiosyncratic and predictable intrinsic types of liver issues that have happened.

[1] Teschke R, Qiu SX, Lebot V. Herbal hepatotoxicity by kava: update on pipermethystine, flavokavain B, and mould hepatotoxins as primarily assumed culprits. Dig Liver Dis. 2011 Sep;43(9):676-81. doi: 10.1016/j.dld.2011.01.018. Epub 2011 Mar 4. PMID: 21377431.

Herbal hepatotoxicity by kava: update on pipermethystine, flavokavain B, and mould hepatotoxins as primarily assumed culprits - PubMed

Herbal hepatotoxicity by the anxiolytic kava (Piper methysticum Forst. f.) emerged unexpectedly and was observed in a few patients worldwide. Liver injury occurred after the use of traditional aqueous kava extracts in the South Pacific region and of acetonic and ethanolic extracts in Western...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov