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Body pain after ceasing kava

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Thomas2060

Kava Curious
I've been consuming kava nightly for the last 2.5 months straight, except for a few days when I had a stomach bug. I just ran out of kava and decided I'd take a little time off from it. I hear that's a good thing to do once in a while for your liver's sake, and it was just getting a little old.

The last two nights I did not have any kava. I did not feel any psychological withdrawal, if anything, it felt like a nice change of pace. But the next morning after stopping, I woke up feeling pretty off, like I'd had a terrible night of sleep, but also very intense dreams. I've never had trouble falling asleep after using kava, but sometimes I suspect my sleep quality is not very good with some strains. This might explain the vivid dreams, if kava was disrupting or preventing a proper REM cycle.

What's less easy to explain is that I've also had moderate body pains since stopping. It's the sort of general aching all over that you feel with a cold or flu, except I don't feel sick at all. I don't have any other symptoms of cold or flu, just the body pains, and I'm carrying on my daily activities with no issues other than annoyance and worry. It does seem a little milder today than it did yesterday, and obviously I hope it continues to trail off.

Although I'd consumed kava nightly, the brand and strain of kava has varied quite a bit. Some nights I've prepared a really strong batch, others were weaker, emptiness of stomach varied, etc. So there are a lot of variables at play, making it hard to pin the symptoms on any particular type of kava. I'm attributing it more to a general pattern of use. The variables also make it unlikely that kava was successfully masking an underlying condition 100% for the last few months.

Has anyone experienced this, or have any ideas? All the threads I've found here talking about withdrawal really downplay the idea, with most claiming that they never experience any withdrawal symptoms from kava. I don't doubt that some people consume it with no issues as they claim, but I highly doubt that kava is some miracle plant that is entirely free from withdrawal issues (as many here seem to imply). The timing is too precise for me to attribute my issues to anything other than kava cessation. Any thoughts appreciated!
 
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Intrepidus_dux

Kava O.G.
I have no idea. If it were me, I'd assume it's a one of unless it happens again. Maybe drink kava for awhile and then stop and see? I know my sleep is terrible when I don't have kava.
 

tutti196

Kava Curious
kava wont make you physical addict but it can make you psychological addict as it is with all thing that help you like e.g cdb with pain if your cease it you will have pain again so what will you do? Still take it and know it will not really hurt your body and ease your pain or you will endure the pain because of that and get other problems.
 
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Thomas2060

Kava Curious
I know kava does not work the same way as opiate drugs, which is why it's thought to be not addictive. But my body pain symptoms are eerily similar to what I've read about opiate withdrawal, although I assume it's a lower intensity than what those people experience. As well, the first few days I noticed my eyes were getting really watery at random times, but again without any of the other symptoms of a cold. That is also apparently a symptom of opiate withdrawal.

it's both kind of funny and disappointing that the only responses to this thread so far are basically "maybe you should have more kava?" :rolleyes: I know some people here are more scientifically knowledgeable about how kava achieves its effects on the body, and I was hoping those people might weigh in. If a substance can make your body completely relaxed and euphoric, while numbing your mouth and stomach, and you consume this in moderate to high strengths for months straight and then suddenly stop -- is it really a stretch that the body might react somehow to the absence of this stimulation? Even if it's much lower intensity than actual opiate withdrawal, I find it hard to believe there's no cost at all to doing kava. Nothing comes that easy without any consequence.
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I know kava does not work the same way as opiate drugs, which is why it's thought to be not addictive. But my body pain symptoms are eerily similar to what I've read about opiate withdrawal, although I assume it's a lower intensity than what those people experience. As well, the first few days I noticed my eyes were getting really watery at random times, but again without any of the other symptoms of a cold. That is also apparently a symptom of opiate withdrawal.

it's both kind of funny and disappointing that the only responses to this thread so far are basically "maybe you should have more kava?" :rolleyes: I know some people here are more scientifically knowledgeable about how kava achieves its effects on the body, and I was hoping those people might weigh in. If a substance can make your body completely relaxed and euphoric, while numbing your mouth and stomach, and you consume this in moderate to high strengths for months straight and then suddenly stop -- is it really a stretch that the body might react somehow to the absence of this stimulation? Even if it's much lower intensity than actual opiate withdrawal, I find it hard to believe there's no cost at all to doing kava. Nothing comes that easy without any consequence.
If you have body aches or musculoskeletal pain from the abrupt cessation of kava, that is an idiosyncratic symptom that is unique to you. I don't recall any other long time kava drinker reporting any such sensation, including myself. Many of us on this forum have been drinking a lot of kava, very regularly for a very long time and we've all stopped for periods of time without issue.

There are some effects you mentioned that I (and others) have experienced though. Upon stopping kava usage, it's normal for me to suddenly start having intense vivid dreams which seem to disturb my rest...and it's normal for dermopathy (including in the eyes) to flare up for a period of time after you stop drinking.
 

Go Krunk Yourself

Kava Enthusiast
Anything you put a substance in your body for a long time removing it can cause an impact. For example, there was a period of time when the day after I had Kava I would have racing heart and have more anxiety. This is common for me with any sedative drugs (Benzos, Alcohol, etc). It hasn't happened in a long time to me, but it HAS an impact. Kava is one of the most safest, and low "side effect" threshhold things but there are always cases of people who do not react well to it, or have strange effects upon "withdrawal". Please update us on your condition.
 

Thomas2060

Kava Curious
So my symptoms lasted about 4 days, then abruptly stopped. I resumed drinking kava several days after and things have been normal since then. The symptoms weren't awful or anything, but certainly annoying and enough to worry me and put me in a googling-medical-conditions funk. Since nothing else has happened I'm still attaching the symptoms to ceasing kava. This didn't scare me off kava or anything, but I intend to take more frequent breaks and hopefully avoid this in the future.

I appreciate the thoughtful replies, but wanted to offer some friendly cautionary advice. In many threads on this forum, people make statements that seem to be assuming this forum is representative of the entire kava experience at large. It hasn't been reported here, so it must not exist; or the opposite, people here have a particular experience, so it must be universal. I think such assumptions are best avoided. I'm not picking on kava either; as is the case with any hobby or interest, only a fraction of its enthusiasts or casual users alike even lurk at any particular internet forum, and fewer still are active participants. There are surely teens in rural Oklahoma and elderly in Spain and construction workers in Ghana and all other kinds of people who use kava and are completely outside forum member's realm of experience, who wouldn't even think of discussing it on the internet. So just because some facet of kava use, like withdrawal symptoms, are not be reported around here or at your local kava bar, that doesn't mean much of anything. I'm exhibit number one! If it was a widespread pervasive issue, yes, it would probably make its way here eventually. But let's not assume we know more than we do. *steps off rickety soap box*
 

kasa_balavu

Yaqona Dina
So just because some facet of kava use, like withdrawal symptoms, are not be reported around here or at your local kava bar, that doesn't mean much of anything. I'm exhibit number one! If it was a widespread pervasive issue, yes, it would probably make its way here eventually. But let's not assume we know more than we do.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying. However, kava is the national drink of Fiji. It's drunk copiously in a number of Pacific Island nations. While the science around kava is still relatively sparse, it's observable effects and side-effects are pretty well understood by the peoples that have been drinking it for generations. Withdrawal symptoms are pretty much unheard of. Or, to put it another way, ceasing long-term kava use is "known" to make one feel better, not worse.
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
So my symptoms lasted about 4 days, then abruptly stopped. I resumed drinking kava several days after and things have been normal since then. The symptoms weren't awful or anything, but certainly annoying and enough to worry me and put me in a googling-medical-conditions funk. Since nothing else has happened I'm still attaching the symptoms to ceasing kava. This didn't scare me off kava or anything, but I intend to take more frequent breaks and hopefully avoid this in the future.

I appreciate the thoughtful replies, but wanted to offer some friendly cautionary advice. In many threads on this forum, people make statements that seem to be assuming this forum is representative of the entire kava experience at large. It hasn't been reported here, so it must not exist; or the opposite, people here have a particular experience, so it must be universal. I think such assumptions are best avoided. I'm not picking on kava either; as is the case with any hobby or interest, only a fraction of its enthusiasts or casual users alike even lurk at any particular internet forum, and fewer still are active participants. There are surely teens in rural Oklahoma and elderly in Spain and construction workers in Ghana and all other kinds of people who use kava and are completely outside forum member's realm of experience, who wouldn't even think of discussing it on the internet. So just because some facet of kava use, like withdrawal symptoms, are not be reported around here or at your local kava bar, that doesn't mean much of anything. I'm exhibit number one! If it was a widespread pervasive issue, yes, it would probably make its way here eventually. But let's not assume we know more than we do. *steps off rickety soap box*
I think you might be surprised at not only the experience on this forum, but how widespread and broad the knowledge is on kava. Vendors with lots of customers, long time kava farmers, drinkers, and many with knowledge of traditional usage and from originating islands. Some have also worked with leading kava scientists. You are correct that this forum does not represent the entire kava drinking world, but it is pretty well informed. This forum is pretty unique on the interwebs.
 

MsArk

Newbie
Anything you put a substance in your body for a long time removing it can cause an impact. For example, there was a period of time when the day after I had Kava I would have racing heart and have more anxiety. This is common for me with any sedative drugs (Benzos, Alcohol, etc). It hasn't happened in a long time to me, but it HAS an impact. Kava is one of the most safest, and low "side effect" threshhold things but there are always cases of people who do not react well to it, or have strange effects upon "withdrawal". Please update us on your condition.
I also notice a racing heart/anxiety when I abstain from kava after regular use. Scared me to death the first time it happened but then realized it must be kava cessation. The heart racing was not severe but I did notice it. Other than that, no physical symptoms.
 

Go Krunk Yourself

Kava Enthusiast
I also notice a racing heart/anxiety when I abstain from kava after regular use. Scared me to death the first time it happened but then realized it must be kava cessation. The heart racing was not severe but I did notice it. Other than that, no physical symptoms.
Yeah it's not so much Kava as it's anything that "suppresses" you in a way. Also theirs probably some mild dehydration some electrolyte component. Either way, it doesn't seem to affect me during normal Kava usage but if I hit the Kava SUPER SUPER hard for a few days, which I've tended to do, it will send that crap all over the place. But I have serious cardio-phobia, so I also probably make it that much more chaotic so I wouldn't consider myself a test dummy!
 

Thomas2060

Kava Curious
Sure, I expected some pushback on that statement. I'm aware the kava bench is stacked pretty deep on this forum, but that both does and does not give me confidence in the knowledge base. Some of that skepticism comes from my experience with marijuana; let me explain. I smoked it for a few years in my twenties, and it ended up not being very good for me. At some point I couldn't tell if it was helping depression and anxiety or causing it; it changed my social sphere in a way that was both wonderful but also problematic; and while I wasn't physically addicted, I ended up spending money on pot when I really shouldn't have, and ended up smoking it when I really should have been writing term papers. There were obviously other factors at play -- people and life are complicated -- and while my philosophy is to not regret, marijuana's effect on my life was undoubtedly a net negative. Anyway, if you visit marijuana forums or speak to enthusiasts, even such a mild statement as "marijuana is safe for many people but isn't right for everyone and should be approached with caution" will be downplayed or ignored, receive pushback and maybe even scorn. Marijuana lobbyists certainly don't want to point to experiences like mine; they go out of their way to push it as a completely safe, illustrate the differences between pot and alcohol, etc. Perhaps I'm primed for a similar reaction at this forum. Enthusiasts tend to look on the sunny side of their field of interest, at the very least. (I'm all for the legalization of marijuana btw, just wish it wasn't portrayed as 1000% un-problematic)

As well, I've been a bit skeptical of the assertion that because kava has such a long tradition in the Pacific islands, and those populations appear to tolerate it well, that it must be generally well tolerated. To what extent could those populations have adapted over hundreds or thousands of years? Perhaps their livers are a bit more resilient to the effects of kava? Perhaps almost none of them experience kava cessation symptoms, but it might be, if not common, more likely in other populations? There are also cultural considerations; I know that in the ritual use of drugs in some cultures, pain or discomfort can be interpreted not as a medical issue but as something spiritual in nature, or sometimes it's considered weak or unmanly to admit to such symptoms, so they're just not reported. (btw I realize the Pacific islands are modern societies and members of the 21st century, but cultural anachronisms are a thing everywhere)

I don't think anyone here is acting in bad faith. Please don't take any of this as "shots fired." These are just hopefully worthy considerations, counterpoints to any cursory assumptions about kava's miraculousness.
 
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