Chemotypes and extraction temperatures

[Osadandaula UK]

I've been doing a bit of reading about different chemotypes and I'm finding it fascinating.

I've experimented with different temperature water and observers largely what you'd expect. Hotter water = stronger and worse tasting.

Maybe I'm imagining it but it feels like the effects are not just stronger hot but different. Which makes me wonder if hot water is more efficient at extracting say 5 while cold water is more efficient at extracting 4 and 3, for example.

I've also read that hot water can damage kavatones, which is contradictory to what we all observe. Maybe some chemotype are more susceptible to heat damage than others.

Does anyone know of any research on this?

 

[The Kap'n]

I've been doing a bit of reading about different chemotypes and I'm finding it fascinating.

I've experimented with different temperature water and observers largely what you'd expect. Hotter water = stronger and worse tasting.

Maybe I'm imagining it but it feels like the effects are not just stronger hot but different. Which makes me wonder if hot water is more efficient at extracting say 5 while cold water is more efficient at extracting 4 and 3, for example.

I've also read that hot water can damage kavalactones, which is contradictory to what we all observe. Maybe some chemotype are more susceptible to heat damage than others.

Does anyone know of any research on this?

Ooooh, this is a great subject, and is well open to our discussion and interpretation. From the study below it seems that kavalactones are rather hearty molecules and survive far past the 60°C range. The question is: Does extraction ratio increases surpass possible degradation rates giving us a net increase in kavalactones or do they survive in-tact? Many answers here remaining to be uncovered.

In regards to direct research to which kavalactones are extracted at higher rates at higher temperatures, the research is still lacking. We're not sure, however we have our suspicions. We suspect more of the heavier kavalactones are extracted in hot water, but again, we don't have the actual data to back it up just yet.

Kubátová, A., D. J. Miller, and S. B. Hawthorne. 2001. “Comparison of Subcritical Water and Organic Solvents for Extracting Kava Lactones from Kava Root.” Journal of Chromatography. A 923 (1-2): 187–94. https://doi.org/10.1016/s0021-9673(01)00979-7.

 

[Osadandaula UK]

Brilliant response Kaptain!

I love a good graph. Interesting reading but there a few variables not covered. On the surface of it, it looks like yangonin (3) isn't extracted at all at less then 50deg, but has it just sat there for 10 minutes? Maybe 3 requires more agitation to be extracted but Dihydrokavain (2) extracts without agitation more easily. As you say, there is clearly more research to be done but this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, thanks for sharing.

One things is for sure from the above, hotter definitely = stronger. I shudder the think what grog brewed at 175deg for half an hour must taste like! It'd know your socks off though LOL!

I'd love to see those time graphs for 25 and 50 deg. a more relevant range.

These really highlight the importance of soaking your Kava before and/or during your prep. I'm thinking I might start soaking for a lot longer, if I get organised.

 

[Pzk]

Very interesting. After 2 washes I freeze the rest in wet condition so the cell (should) break up. The last peparation after freezing (keeping for bad times) is always different in effect. And only the third wash (after freezing) and sometimes I can even do a fourth (how many do you do?) using a high power mixer/blender, I am using hot water. The effect is so strong and differs in a way it seems like the ratio is completly different. Also the after effects and "hangover" is more strong after freezing.

 

[Osadandaula UK]

I'm still refining my method and mix it up a bit but loosely:

I do a first wash with about 70cl, then a second wash immediately after with 30cl and mix them together to make up a litre. Then I'll give the makas a good wringing out before putting in the freezer. I do a third and maybe fourth wash with 2 or 3 lots of those frozen makas in about a litre. All traditional prep at about 30deg these day. but I'm looking at those graphs thinking maybe I should up it to 40deg.

I've been caught out before now on the third post freezing wash. I was staggering around the kitchen, struggling to stand up without holding onto something. It was hot water though and with three lots of makas, so not really a fair test. Nausea also started kicking in.

It would be interesting to see the science behind freezing and extraction too.

 

[owen099]

Higher extraction levels may not always be better, as some of us have found. Not only is the taste worse, but the effects can take on an undesired strength (some "krunkers" can't even imagine too strong kava).

I also used to not care about the taste, but I've come to like the taste of chilled kava that was "brewed" with room temp water.

 

[_byron]

I have wondered the exact same thing. I have look everywhere for some sort of published paper that shows HPLC results from prepared kava at different temperature but sadly I do not think it exists. My anecdotal thoughts are the same as yours. I think DHM and possibly DHK may be more present in a hot water extraction, to me this would explain the more nauseating experience I get with using hot water.

Besides that making kava with hot water does change the texture and taste in a negative way.

 

[Osadandaula UK]

Yeah it was a hot batch that had me falling over but there wasn't a noticeable increase in euphoria or headiness, which points to DHM and DHK as you say. I lay in bed feeling nausea then slept like a rock, almost pissed the bed I was that solid. Interesting to experience but not one I'd look to repeat.

My gut feeling it that something else happens at hotter temperatures that causes more nausea and hangover.

I can drink instant until the cows come home, (or i go bankrupt) and feel almost no nausea. Although after 4 or 5 tsp I don't seem to notice any further affect, that's a different conversation though.

 

[Osadandaula UK]

Anyway, after seeing those graphs, tonights batch went in to soak at 9am

 

[Osadandaula UK]

It went in at 35deg though, I'm not a mad man.