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Complete Newbie Needing Advice

sharkie

Newbie
Hello there.

I have been reading through the forum for over an hour and still feel a bit lost since everything Kava is foreign to me. I figured I would just ask my questions and maybe someone can point me to the right links, threads, etc. Thanks in advance.

I am exploring Kava for two main reasons. I have already tapered a Benzo - which was brutal and I'm still not completely healed but it's been 3 years since my jump. I started tapering Mirtazapine (antidepressant) in hopes of being med-free. My current taper from the Mirt was going okay until recently. I've hit a rough patch. So my first reason for looking into the Kava is to ease the anxiety and agitation symptoms from the withdrawal. My second reason is to provide anxiety support in general when I'm off everything.

I am super sensitive and somewhat CNS compromised from the withdrawal so need to start slow and low to see how I do and if I can tolerate the Kava without it ramping symptoms. I have no idea what brand or strain is a good fit here and would appreciate suggestions.

I've also read the threads pertaining to Mirtazapine and Kava interactions (something I am concerned about). I don't know if they share enzyme pathways, but some studies shown here say yes and others say maybe ( Mirt uses 1A2, 2D6, 3A4/5). Because I have had other supplements inhibit the Mirt, I want to be careful about trying Kava, starting small and building up if all goes well. I can't afford to ramp symptoms or inhibit the med in a way that potentiates it while I'm trying to taper.

That said, I wonder what type of Kava might be recommend for my situation? I have no idea what instant, micronized and medium grind means. Someone recommended in a different post a concentrate or extract as a way to start small. That means nothing either. My research has only lead me to believe that noble variety is the safest with least side effects so I guess I'm leaning that way. I was also somewhat convinced by other posts that water based rather than solvent based extraction is best so I'm leaning that way as well.

Can you nice, experienced folks recommend a type and brand as well as starter dosing that might be for a sensitive, lightweight like myself?
Are there videos on proper preparation of whatever is recommeneded here? I read some of the prep threads, but still feel confused and a video might help more. I'm a visual learner.

Most on here seem to prefer the traditional method of prep with filter bags and squeezing. I'm guessing this prep is the real deal compared to capsules, tinctures or teas. Yes? However, if you were wanting to start small and increase very incrementally, would another type be better?

I know that is a lot of questions. Thank you for your help or links that would direct me to answers!

Sharkie
 

Artofkava

Jacksonville, FL
Kava Vendor
Hey Sharkie! I hope ur doing well this morning! Ill start off by saying im not a doctor and dont know the ins and outs of your meds. I do know the effects of going off them tapering vs cold turkey thru talking with drs and managing it with Grandparents thru them. I think its great what youre doing! If ur doing it with the help of ur dr that might be best. That said, here are a few answers I can help with.

Extracts and concentrates:

This may very well be the best place to start. A concentrate is a bottle of kava thats already been prepared. They will use much more kava than normal so you will have a small bottle you can just dilute with water or coconut milk etc and manage portions/potentcy easily. By having it already extracted, u know its done right.
Extracts are very similar. Go very easy on these. Herbs are powerful. Extracts are mainly the active ingredient in kava that gives you your effect, called kavalactones. Theres a lot of info about kavalactones and chemotypes. Check those out when u do more research. Look for chemotypes starting with 4 or 2 when the info is available.
A possible side effect of making kava is caused by having too much of the fibers left in your final drink. This leads to an upset stomach. Im not a big fan of pills fir this reason as ur ingesting the (small) fibres. I could be wrong on this so maybe someone else can chime in on that.
For exact product recommndations, kalm with kava has concentrates and theyre a good company. Extracts im not sure. I would lean toward co2 extracts on any herb. Its cleaner and theres mo weird chemical being used to cheaply extract the herb.

Making kava:
There are tons of videos making it the traditional way. I havent seen any using the blender method but im sure theyre out there. Maybe ill make a quick one and post it. I use a reusable coffee filter (never used for coffee) to strain the fibres. It takes a little more time than bags but theres less cleanup.
U can start with 2 tablespoons of kava in a blender with 16oz water. Blend for 4 minutes. Strain thru the filter. I strain thru the reusable metal coffee filter and use a spoon to push the liquid thru. Im left with a dryish muddy sludge in the end with no fibres in the drink. If u dont know someone that can make it and feel better with help we can do a zoom. Whomever else wants to hop on that is welcome to. There are people here way better at making kava the traditional way than me, so maybe someone else would want to do a zoom bula session. Its pretty cool, my first actual session was on zoom with some friends in fiji. They had a big bucket, passed around shells, clapped heh. Pretty awesome stuff.

Anyway, i hoped this helped a little. Im sure others will be able to help more with more knowledge of meds and what youre going thru. Those meds i know can be rough and its a great thing ur doing all of it thoughfully and safely.

Bula <3
 

Precipitated

Kava Curious
What was your Mirtazapine dosage before starting your taper and on what dose are you now? I take a small dosage Mirtazapine (1/8th to 1/4th of a 15mg pill) every night to help with sleep and have had no negative effects with concurrent Kava use. I also had my liver tested recently and the tests we're all excellent. That's my experience at least, your physiology might be different, so better to take it slow and see how you react.

I think you can very well use traditional prep for titrating up the Kava dosage to see how it affects you. Just use more water. If you want to go really slow, you can use 1-2 tablespoons of medium grind kava to half a liter of water or more, knead it for 15 minutes in a nut bag or similar filtering cloth. For starters drink 100ml, wait for 15 minutes and see how it feels, and then if you feel like it, drink another 100ml and so on. This way you can control your dosage and hopefully avoid any issues that might stem from drinking too much too fast. :)
 

sharkie

Newbie
Thank you art of kava! I appreciate your time and help and offer to zoom if needed. I will let you know on that, but that is real generous of you. I'm a little overwhelemed right now with it all and still reading and researching. I know that once you've done it and are used to it, it probably seems like no big deal, but right now it seems complicated to prepare and get dosing right.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
 

sharkie

Newbie
Thank you Precipitated! Yes, I want to go really slow. My body reacts to the slightest. Can you recommend a kava brand for your suggested dosing and trial? What do you do with the remaining kava liquid after kneading and drinking the first 100 ml. Can it be stored (fridge?) and used later? If so how long can you store? Or do you typically make only the amount you will drink at a time. I wondered about storing for later and if that works.

Will it actually kick in within 15 minutes if it works? Also, how long do the effects last. Couple of hours or so? Thanks for all of the help. And to answer your question, currently about 5 mg.
 

ThatDankK

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If you don't have a sensitive stomach I personally started on micronized from kalm with kava and gourmet Hawaiin kava and feel that is the best bang for your buck whilst being easy to manage dosages. Ive always been able to manage micronized with zero stomach discomfort.
 

Artofkava

Jacksonville, FL
Kava Vendor
Thank you Precipitated! Yes, I want to go really slow. My body reacts to the slightest. Can you recommend a kava brand for your suggested dosing and trial? What do you do with the remaining kava liquid after kneading and drinking the first 100 ml. Can it be stored (fridge?) and used later? If so how long can you store? Or do you typically make only the amount you will drink at a time. I wondered about storing for later and if that works.

Will it actually kick in within 15 minutes if it works? Also, how long do the effects last. Couple of hours or so? Thanks for all of the help. And to answer your question, currently about 5 mg.
It kicks in for me right away. Everyone is different and kavas are different. Ive had one kind of kick in a few min later and only lasting a few min more. Others are instand and have topped out at 2hrs.
 

sharkie

Newbie
If you don't have a sensitive stomach I personally started on micronized from kalm with kava and gourmet Hawaiin kava and feel that is the best bang for your buck whilst being easy to manage dosages. Ive always been able to manage micronized with zero stomach discomfort.
Thank you for the suggestions. I checked out both of those websites. Kalm with Kava has a lot of good info for a newbie and it's easy to navigate. I checked out all their Kava strains and chose a micronized. I do have a sensitive stomach so I hope I don't have problems there. Micronized seems a good place to start otherwise. The gourmet Hawaiian didn't have too much in stock and had instant rather than micronized. Same thing? They also don't have too much written about their varieties so I found it harder to figure out what, if anything, to try.

Thanks for the suggestions!
 

hightides42

our Roots run deep
Micronized and instant are different in form, micronized is more like a finer grind than medium grind kava and has been blamed for much stomach upset as I understand due mostly to more starch freed from the root (don't quote me and anyone please correct if inaccurate).
Instant, at least for GHK as owner Chris stated is kava made traditional way from a medium grind or maybe fresh root pulp with the resulting liquid dehydrated until nothing but the powder remains. In my experience it is the best for clean taste and effect, it is worst for cost. where I like 40-50 grams medium grind for a good dose I tend to overdo it with instant, going about 20 grams which makes it about $10usd a shell (200g/$100 GHK). Can't speak for any other vendor on how they make instant, Chris seemed to imply his method was not common(? iirc)
For a good description (and tons of other great kava infos) check out user Henry's blog over at The Kava Society-New Zealand he also covers down on medium grind, micronized and instant. We've only tried their Borongoru variety, medium grind, it is delicious and really had a feel of nobility to it, rich creamy like something worthy offering the king/ royalty of yesteryear.
Right now we are going thru a few pounds of fresh/green root pulp, frozen after initial processing at the ranch it is grown on, @Pu'u O Hoku Ranch and learning dose with it now, but imo it is even more delicious, clean and fresh taste and headspace, than anything tried to date (we've had at least 2lbs/1kg of each variety tested from 10 different vendors, for reference)
I'd say stick with medium grind before going with micronized and once you find a good taste and preferred effect then give their instant a try, if vendor offers it. That way you can keep cost low anticipating a couple weeks to breakthrough the reverse tolerance phase (common reaction, some feel kava effects with first shell). Maybe going through 1 pound/half kilo (total) medium grind root, being drunk daily, is another way to look at it. If you haven't broke on thru to the other side by then I'd look at prep and expectations.
 

avahZ

YAHWEH Shalom
Agreed stick with traditional prep medium grind or a true instant. After you get a feel for it, try the micronize. Also, as noted above, some sites will call their micronized “instant”. However, true instant is how @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava does it. @Bula Kava House has a true instant but they are currently sold out. Both @Bula Kava House and @Kalm with Kava honestly present their micronized kava as “micronized instant”.

I like all three; however, the true instant is a little rich for my wallet :) I drink too much too fast...
 

hightides42

our Roots run deep
As above, welcome to the forum!

another late thought, you might find the forum spreadsheet (link below, maintained on google docs) to be very helpful. Forum founder, Kapm, keeps it up to date and is proving to be a very reliable doc for easy find current inventories, prices and link to website. Oh and chemotypes, useful in determining preferences (the "big 6", usually simplified and grouped as heady, balanced and heavy) from amongst the tons of names given the varieties sold: https://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/general-price-thread-spreadsheet.14056/
 
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