Confused newbie, undesirable effects

[Cassiopeia]

Hi all,
I've been lurking on the forum for some weeks now, learning about kava, and wanted to thank you all for having such a knowledgeable and friendly community.

So I recently tried kava for the second time (I had tried it many years ago, it had no effect but I was clueless about the preparation, boiling it for really long amd probably taking way too little). I got micronised kava from Kalm with Kava. My main aims were to decrease anxiety, improve insomnia, and cut down on weed (I successfully used weed to cut down alcohol some years ago, but now I'm a daily smoker).

So, I had some the day before yesterday, but I made the mistake of using some energy drink to wash the taste down - I hardly ever drink caffeine, but that's all I had and I was too anxious/lazy to go to the shop and buy juice. I had read about kava and caffeine not mixing that well generally, but I thought it wouldn't matter much since I consumed less than half of a small can in total (over the course of a few hours). Boy I was wrong. I've since read that kava may inhibit the breakdown of caffeine, and that's what it felt like - super jittery, super anxious, as if I had had three cans and not just a half. I ended up trying to take more kava to help the anxiety, and ended up taking a bit too much and being sick .

I woke up with a lot of anxiety the next day, and thought I'd try using kava to help - since in my mind it was the caffeine that had been the main cause of anxiety. I had some borogu first, which did nothing, but later in the evening had some loa waka, which helped my anxiety and put me to sleep.

This morning I woke up with rebound anxiety again. For the record, I never get anxiety in the mornings, and I find it hard to wake up before 10 - even though I have trouble falling asleep, once I'm out I can easily sleep 12 hours - but I was up at 7 with churning anxiety in my stomach. Ive done some research and it seems rebound anxiety is very rare with kava. I am disappointed because i really hoped this could be it for me. I wanted a non-addictive substance that i could take to help me with occasional anxiety and frequent insomnia. And, it does help, but the rebound anxiety would make it addictive for me, since taking more gives relief.

Any opinions on this? Is kava just not for me, or should I experiment some more? Could it be the lingering effects of the caffeine kava combo from 2 days ago?

 

[Groggy]

Hi all,
I've been lurking on the forum for some weeks now, learning about kava, and wanted to thank you all for having such a knowledgeable and friendly community.

So I recently tried kava for the second time (I had tried it many years ago, it had no effect but I was clueless about the preparation, boiling it for really long amd probably taking way too little). I got micronised kava from Kalm with Kava. My main aims were to decrease anxiety, improve insomnia, and cut down on weed (I successfully used weed to cut down alcohol some years ago, but now I'm a daily smoker).

So, I had some the day before yesterday, but I made the mistake of using some energy drink to wash the taste down - I hardly ever drink caffeine, but that's all I had and I was too anxious/lazy to go to the shop and buy juice. I had read about kava and caffeine not mixing that well generally, but I thought it wouldn't matter much since I consumed less than half of a small can in total (over the course of a few hours). Boy I was wrong. I've since read that kava may inhibit the breakdown of caffeine, and that's what it felt like - super jittery, super anxious, as if I had had three cans and not just a half. I ended up trying to take more kava to help the anxiety, and ended up taking a bit too much and being sick .

I woke up with a lot of anxiety the next day, and thought I'd try using kava to help - since in my mind it was the caffeine that had been the main cause of anxiety. I had some borogu first, which did nothing, but later in the evening had some loa waka, which helped my anxiety and put me to sleep.

This morning I woke up with rebound anxiety again. For the record, I never get anxiety in the mornings, and I find it hard to wake up before 10 - even though I have trouble falling asleep, once I'm out I can easily sleep 12 hours - but I was up at 7 with churning anxiety in my stomach. Ive done some research and it seems rebound anxiety is very rare with kava. I am disappointed because i really hoped this could be it for me. I wanted a non-addictive substance that i could take to help me with occasional anxiety and frequent insomnia. And, it does help, but the rebound anxiety would make it addictive for me, since taking more gives relief.

Any opinions on this? Is kava just not for me, or should I experiment some more? Could it be the lingering effects of the caffeine kava combo from 2 days ago?

Hi there and welcome to Kavaforums.

I think kava can be for you but it may take a few days for you to get the hang of it. You mentioned buying Micro from KWK which was an excellent choice. My advice to you is to make sure you drink kava on an empty stomach and use filtered or bottled water instead of juice, make sure the mix is ice cold (it's a lot easier to drink it that way). Of course you can always use any other recipe including fruit juice.

If kava works out for you, I would then recommend you look into regular medium grind kava as it is way more cost effective and it's easy to prepare it.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Thanks for your response Just to clarify, I was using water, the drink was just to wash away the taste in my mouth after.

I will give kava a few more chances since I know that many people need to experiment a bit to find what works for them. And if it does I will try out traditional prep too. It's just that the rebound anxiety worries me a bit....

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Hi all,
I've been lurking on the forum for some weeks now, learning about kava, and wanted to thank you all for having such a knowledgeable and friendly community.

So I recently tried kava for the second time (I had tried it many years ago, it had no effect but I was clueless about the preparation, boiling it for really long amd probably taking way too little). I got micronised kava from Kalm with Kava. My main aims were to decrease anxiety, improve insomnia, and cut down on weed (I successfully used weed to cut down alcohol some years ago, but now I'm a daily smoker).

So, I had some the day before yesterday, but I made the mistake of using some energy drink to wash the taste down - I hardly ever drink caffeine, but that's all I had and I was too anxious/lazy to go to the shop and buy juice. I had read about kava and caffeine not mixing that well generally, but I thought it wouldn't matter much since I consumed less than half of a small can in total (over the course of a few hours). Boy I was wrong. I've since read that kava may inhibit the breakdown of caffeine, and that's what it felt like - super jittery, super anxious, as if I had had three cans and not just a half. I ended up trying to take more kava to help the anxiety, and ended up taking a bit too much and being sick .

I woke up with a lot of anxiety the next day, and thought I'd try using kava to help - since in my mind it was the caffeine that had been the main cause of anxiety. I had some borogu first, which did nothing, but later in the evening had some loa waka, which helped my anxiety and put me to sleep.

This morning I woke up with rebound anxiety again. For the record, I never get anxiety in the mornings, and I find it hard to wake up before 10 - even though I have trouble falling asleep, once I'm out I can easily sleep 12 hours - but I was up at 7 with churning anxiety in my stomach. Ive done some research and it seems rebound anxiety is very rare with kava. I am disappointed because i really hoped this could be it for me. I wanted a non-addictive substance that i could take to help me with occasional anxiety and frequent insomnia. And, it does help, but the rebound anxiety would make it addictive for me, since taking more gives relief.

Any opinions on this? Is kava just not for me, or should I experiment some more? Could it be the lingering effects of the caffeine kava combo from 2 days ago?

Definitely experiment more. Some kava products are immensely better for dealing with true anxiety and insomnia than others. For a multitude of reasons, I need help relaxing by the end of the day and sleep can be very difficult. The two best "wind down and sleep" products that I've found available at this time are Kava Supreme and Stone. Other than the normal potential for nausea, those strong, heavy Vanuatu kavas will continue to deepen relaxation and put you to sleep as the dose increases with the only side effects being the normal potential for nausea that comes with drinking kava.

Since you've been smoking daily, have you been smoking on the days you drank kava? There can be a rebound effect if you've used cannabis regularly (especially high amounts and stop abruptly) as your body adjusts to not having the cannabinoid influence that it's used to.

 

[Cassiopeia]

SelfBiasResistor, I've continued to smoke, although I did smoke less than usual. I regularly quit cannabis for 2-4 weeks a couple of times a year when I work abroad, and have never experienced any withdrawal effects from cannabis, so I don't think it's that...

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

SelfBiasResistor, I've continued to smoke, although I did smoke less than usual. I regularly quit cannabis for 2-4 weeks a couple of times a year when I work abroad, and have never experienced any withdrawal effects from cannabis, so I don't think it's that...

OK, it's probably not that, then. I would go back to my initial suggestion and look for kava varieties that have higher levels of DHM (5) in their chemotype. DHM is long lasting, relaxing and sedating which helps transition to restful sleep.

 

[Edward]

Definitely try to stick with heavier kavas and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Matthew Emmons]

I have very similar effects as you did when taking Pouni Ono from KWK. I had a cup of morning coffee prior but took it otherwise on an empty stomach. It gave me the feeling like I was right at the brink of a desired effect but not quite there. Made me extremely frustrated and anxious with a very fluttery heart rate. I ended up taking a heavy dose of K@ and laid down in a dark quiet room. It took a good 2-3 hours for the feeling to go away. I decided to give it another shot later in the day after eating some lunch and had a very good experience. I did not know that taking kava with caffeine inhanced the effects of caffeine as I am very sensitive to caffeine and limit my daily caffeine intake to just one small cup of coffee in the morning and that is it. Thanks for bringing this up. It could explain the bad experience I had.

Keep trying different kinds and ways of taking kava. I was very happy I gave it another shot after such a bad experience. Hopefully you find what works for you.