Different stages of dermo - Do you get slightly reddish skin first?

[TheKavaSociety]

I am trying to capture the different stages of dermo to be able to describe it more accurately. Dermo is generally described as "scaly, dry skin". But I've also been reading that many people get slightly reddish skin before it gets dry/flaky. Some people might get a bit of a reddish rash (mainly around their armpits or neck). Some people say they get a few red dots/blotches if they overindulge and consume too much kava too frequently.
Has this been your experience?

 

[Groggy]

I get flaky skin first and I notice it in my torso, legs and hands and if I let it go, it will become red and sometimes painful. Learning to recognize the slight flaking in the beginning of an episode has saved me a lot of grief.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

I get flaky skin first and I notice it in my torso, legs and hands and if I let it go, it will become red and sometimes painful. Learning to recognize the slight flaking in the beginning of an episode has saved me a lot of grief.

do you ever get red dots or red stretch marks? that's what many people also report

 

[Groggy]

do you ever get red dots or red stretch marks? that's what many people also report

If I ignore the symptoms and keep drinking, absolutely, it just gets worse.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

If I ignore the symptoms and keep drinking, absolutely, it just gets worst.

ok. so your skin gets dry first and if you ignore these warning signs, you might also get red dots/blotches?
Hm, most people describe that it happens the other way around. The literature is a bit confusing about this. Dermo is normally described as "a rash", but it's a rather vague term. I am just trying to capture its characteristics fairly accurately so that we can provide better info for those wondering what might be happening to their skin

 

[Groggy]

I have a darker complexion so I don't get blotchy or red dots. I do get red irritated skin to the point that when I put Amlactin on, it burns. It affects my face, specifically around my eyes, when it gets really bad.

EDIT: It will spread throughout my body if again, I keep ignoring it.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I think my first full-on dermo started with patches of raw, streaky, irritated skin around my arm pits. Then when I stopped kava for a few days it became the dry, flaky skin.

Ever since then, I'm usually going up and down with the dry skin and will only occasionally get the raw skin patches, typically around the armpit or lower torso.

At this point I can't tell if one part directly precedes the other, or which one it is. I can always tell I'm gonna have a full-body skin shedding, when I get several days in a row of tight prickly annoying skin sensations...when that stops, I notice the scaly cracked look, then it all starts dusting off of me.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

With me, it always starts as very dry, flaky skin around the eyes/nose/torso and waist area. After I exfoliate the dead skin, it temporarily turns red until the irritation goes away and the process repeats. I have noticed unexplained stretch marks appearing, never thought that could possibly be part of it.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

With me, it always starts as very dry, flaky skin around the eyes/nose/torso and waist area. After I exfoliate the dead skin, it temporarily turns red until the irritation goes away and the process repeats. I have noticed unexplained stretch marks appearing, never thought that could possibly be part of it.

Yea, the stretch marks and/or small red dots/patches of red skin are mentioned in most detailed reports, but often missed in shorter summaries. I think this is yet another indication that dermo is somewhat related to immunity system, as suggested by Lebot et al who argued that dermo might be a kind of dose-dependent quasi allergic reaction caused by the massive accumulation of kavalactones and some other compounds in the skin.

 

[ThePiper]

I'm experiencing the first stages I've ever been sure we're dermo and it's chapped knuckles that have sore crack-like spots but they are really tiny. Also my hands are dry most of the time despite my anxiety increasing how much my palms sweat in the past.

 

[schatz]

Since starting kava over a year ago, I noticed dry skin generally all over. If I indulge daily for weeks or dont strain particularly well a few times I will start to ge itchy patches that have small raised red bumps involved, usually on my back first and then the start at each lymph node usually inside elbows first and then arm pits and then the lower ones. I usually take a break from kava for a week or so and then they dissapear in the order they arrived. I stop drinking kava until most of the red itchiness goes away and then resume, the dry skin never goes away, at least I dont quit drinking kava long enough and figure I can live with that. I have learned how to make some awseome lotions. I was always very oily skin also before starting kava, naver used lotion in my life in 53 years except for occational issues. Hope that helps and good luck.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Since starting kava over a year ago, I noticed dry skin generally all over. If I indulge daily for weeks or dont strain particularly well a few times I will start to ge itchy patches that have small raised red bumps involved, usually on my back first and then the start at each lymph node usually inside elbows first and then arm pits and then the lower ones. I usually take a break from kava for a week or so and then they dissapear in the order they arrived. I stop drinking kava until most of the red itchiness goes away and then resume, the dry skin never goes away, at least I dont quit drinking kava long enough and figure I can live with that. I have learned how to make some awseome lotions. I was always very oily skin also before starting kava, naver used lotion in my life in 53 years except for occational issues. Hope that helps and good luck.

THIS! Yes, this is something I keep seeing in various reports and publications. I think this is also what I read in that French-language assessment of dermo. For some reason irritation/small rash that is associated with dermo often occures at places with the highest concentration of lymph nodes:

hands and feet get dry or very dry but usually free of any red bumps or itchiness.

I think @violet also noted this.

Does anyone else get occasional raised red bumps, slight itchiness or redness inside elbows, armpits etc (often as a warning sign that dermo is coming) when you overindulge/consume kava too frequently?

It's a really strange mechanism, but I think Lebot and Dupuis were right to suggest that dermo is a kind of dose-dependent weird allergic/immune reaction.

 

[Edward]

Thanks to @Mrbinx69 and @Jerome I don't have a problem with dermo. Ingesting coconut oil daily does the trick for me. I get dry hands and the occasional patch somewhere else but nowhere near what I used to get.

 

[Bubba Bula]

Thanks to @Mrbinx69 and @Jerome I don't have a problem with dermo. Ingesting coconut oil daily does the trick for me. I get dry hands and the occasional patch somewhere else but nowhere near what I used to get.

This sounds like a real easy trick & a healthy one at that. Coconut oil is actually pretty good for you. How much coconut oil a day?

My dermo is different. My skin is naturally dry, and so maybe my skin gets itchy to the point where I need to do something about it before it gets to the red blotch stage. My feet and lower legs around my ankles get extremely dry. The skin begins to resemble alligator scales. Its almost as if the skin wants to shed, but something is keeping it glued to my body so it doesn't want to come off.

 

[Edward]

This sounds like a real easy trick & a healthy one at that. Coconut oil is actually pretty good for you. How much coconut oil a day?

My dermo is different. My skin is naturally dry, and so maybe my skin gets itchy to the point where I need to do something about it before it gets to the red blotch stage. My feet and lower legs around my ankles get extremely dry. The skin begins to resemble alligator scales. Its almost as if the skin wants to shed, but something is keeping it glued to my body so it doesn't want to come off.

I use capsules and it amounts to 4 grams a day. It doesn't stop dry skin occasionally but nothing major. I used micro only for a week or so and got really bad pain on my neck at the back like it was on fire and I could just feel myself drying out. I've not had anything like that with the coconut oil.

 

[August West]

Around my eyes, mostly in front of my sideburn area. The skin on my face tightens like a sunburn. Then feels like a sunburn. Then peels like one.
I believe I get it on my hands from not wearing gloves while straining, and washing my hands a lot. (I work with the elderly)
I used to think I got the bumpy rash in my armpits because of dermo exacerbated by friction from simple arm movement. But this whole lymph node thinking we'll... Has me thinking.
The hands are the worst, for me. Face, hands, armpits. In that order.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Around my eyes, mostly in front of my sideburn area. The skin on my face tightens like a sunburn. Then feels like a sunburn. Then peels like one.
I believe I get it on my hands from not wearing gloves while straining, and washing my hands a lot. (I work with the elderly)
I used to think I got the bumpy rash in my armpits because of dermo exacerbated by friction from simple arm movement. But this whole lymph node thinking we'll... Has me thinking.
The hands are the worst, for me. Face, hands, armpits. In that order.

So you also get a bit of a bumpy rash in your pits? Does it spread to hands to are your hands just dry?

 

[schatz]

Around my eyes, mostly in front of my sideburn area. The skin on my face tightens like a sunburn. Then feels like a sunburn. Then peels like one.
I believe I get it on my hands from not wearing gloves while straining, and washing my hands a lot. (I work with the elderly)
I used to think I got the bumpy rash in my armpits because of dermo exacerbated by friction from simple arm movement. But this whole lymph node thinking we'll... Has me thinking.
The hands are the worst, for me. Face, hands, armpits. In that order.

Wearing gloves is a must for me when straining traditionally.When I first started I was not using gloves and my hands were a wreck. I do a lot of Aluballin now but when I do traditioonal I wear gloves for sure.

 

[schatz]

THIS! Yes, this is something I keep seeing in various reports and publications. I think this is also what I read in that French-language assessment of dermo. For some reason irritation/small rash that is associated with dermo often occures at places with the highest concentration of lymph nodes:

View attachment 7723

hands and feet get dry or very dry but usually free of any red bumps or itchiness.

I think @violet also noted this.

Does anyone else get occasional raised red bumps, slight itchiness or redness inside elbows, armpits etc (often as a warning sign that dermo is coming) when you overindulge/consume kava too frequently?

It's a really strange mechanism, but I think Lebot and Dupuis were right to suggest that dermo is a kind of dose-dependent weird allergic/immune reaction.

This diagram shows exactly where I broke out last fall when I let it hit me real bad.

 

[Bubba Bula]

@schatz I love your logo: "itchin for kava"