Disappointing First Experience

[Ed!]

Hi all,
I was really excited when I learned about kava. It seemed a great fit for me for a few reasons, but my first experience was less than stellar. It didn't hardly do a thing.
I bought Mahakea from the Hawaiian Kava Center because of the great testimonials I saw here and the good price point (didn't want to pay too much on a first try).
I didn't eat anything since lunch (7 hours) because of what I've read here.
I started out by watching a few youtube videos on how it's made. I went with this one because it sounded mostly like what you all were doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkWU93hMPrA
I followed their suggestion of 1 heaping tablespoon per 0.5 cups of water. I didn't have a strainer though, so I used an old pillow case turned inside out. 
I massaged that pillowcase full of kava into a warm basin of water for about 8 minutes before I tried to pick up the pillowcase and wring some of the water out. It broke open from the corner and plopped all of my kava into the water. Bummer.
I had to wash some dishes anyway to have somewhere to put my mixture, so I let that just sit for about 35 minutes while I was busy cleaning up.
After that I took a big jar and filtered the mixed up kava/water through a t-shirt that I wasn't going to use. I'm wondering if I filtered too much because I did send it through the front and the back of the shirt, and it wasn't a particularly thin t-shirt.
The mixture came out as you can see in this picture:

From there I drank, and I drank, and I drank, and never really did have much happen. This was my timeline:
7:30 first 0.5 cup drank. I sipped this first one slowly, and I did feel some numbness on my tongue.7:45 another 0.5 cup.7:55 a third 0.5 cup, still no noticeable effect.8:05 fourth 0.5 cup, some very light stomach unhappiness.Here I waited a bit longer, trying to be patient and see if it was just slow to arrive.8:30 fifth 0.5 cup.8:50 sixth 0.5 cup.9:10 seventh 0.5 cup. Thought I started to ever so slightly feel it, but it didn't last long.9:30 eighth and final 0.5 cup. Really not feeling it but I don't want to get smashed or something accidentally so I quit.So I drank 4 full cups over two hours and just barely felt something. No hangover in the morning either. I'm hoping you can find something that I didn't do quite right and I'm not just immune or something.
(smiley: ohwell)

 

[kl.Beepum]

I'm going to tell you this. A good number of my friends never got any feeling from Kava at all. It seems like 1 out of 5 people are not going to get any effect from Kava.

There's also a reverse tolerance, some people have to drink it a couple times before they feel the effects. Guess I was a lucky one I felt it very strong the first time I tried it.

Also Hawaiian Kava is generally not very strong.

 

[Bula Kava House]

Stay with it. I own a kava bar in Portland and some people simply don't get much of an effect the first time they drink kava (myself included). Beepum is right, there is a reverse tolerance that is well documented, and it will often take a few tries to get the desired effect. I drink kava regularly now and a single serving will put me in a very nice place. Also, make strong kava. We suggest you use 2-3 parts water to every 1 part of coarsely ground kava. A finer grind like our Fu'u can be stretched to 4-5 parts water. Try adding some soy lecithin to the mixture as well. For every cup add a teaspoon or so, this will help emulsify the kavalactones and makes a pretty big difference.
You also need to pay close attention mentally. Kava typically doesn't cause a super intense intoxication like alcohol or marijuana. The fact that there is no loss of mental clarity throws some people off and they get the idea that because they can still  think clearly the kava is not effective. I suggest you do as the ni-Vanuatu do. Make your kava in the evening and drink it on an empty stomach. Sit back in a relaxed and somewhat quiet environment and "listen to the kava". Maybe try a small warm meal 15-30 minutes after drinking, so people say this intensifies the effect.
And damn, you didn't eat for 7 hours? You probably weren't affected by the kava because all you could think about was how hungry you were!(smiley: laugh)

 

[Ed!]

And damn, you didn't eat for 7 hours? You probably weren't affected by the kava because all you could think about was how hungry you were!(smiley: laugh)

Heh, that's pretty much a daily thing for me. I often only eat dinner, and eat it late in the evening.
Thanks, I'll keep trying.

 

[Prince Philip]

"The fact that there is no loss of mental clarity throws some people off and they get the idea that because they can still think clearly the kava is not effective."



This is not exactly a lie, it's just not completely true. It's sort of like if I were to give you $100. You wouldn't be losing any money, would you?



Kava increases mental clarity. I (the real person behind the Cargo Cult persona) use kava whenever I am doing intense studying for IT certifications. So far I've passed the A+, Network+ and MCDST, and currently am about 1/2 way through the Network+. In addition to relaxing the mind, it also does something to one's ability to think... perhaps due to being a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor... it enhances it.



Now, I wouldn't call it a nootropic for anyone who's been using it under a year, based on my personal experience, although I won't absolutely bet that others won't develop clarity faster.



Mindset is part of the experience, as is setting. I recommend starting at sunset. Relaxing music helps. Right now, I'm playing the score to The Matrix. I'm currently addicted to Klayplex, though, and will play this once the experience kicks in.



If you do manage to start feeling the effects of kava, there is one sure way to have kava "Xhibit" a stronger effect. I personally recommend using Nakamal@Home's "Shaman." Take a teaspoon and mix it into your shell of whataver (e.g. Fu'u). You've just put kava in your kava, so you can be krunk while you're krunk. Trust me, I don't know why it works, but I suspect strongly it's because spray-dried kava juice and the stuff one makes from kava roots have different phytochemical profiles in addition to their kavalactone chemotypes. If I can ever have a Q&A; with Vincent Lebot, I'll ask him.



In a nutshell

0.) Give it time to build up

1.) Kava will make you smarter

2.) Mix instant kava into your squeezed-from-dry-roots kava to totally crunk out

 

[Prince Philip]

I'm not sure, but I think a bad trip might be more noticeable. I have had two experiences where I just started crying uncontrollably.



The first watching the Doctor Who animated story "Dreamland."

The second was tonight, contemplating NDAA. If this is your American Dream, we'd better hope John Frum does some ass-kicking in his native land before he returns to Tanna.

Things that I would normally hide from myself with cynicism will draw tears as kava forces me to confront my true sorrow about the sad state of many things, human rights abuses by the government of the United States being the worse for some unknown and probably spiritual reason.

 

[kavalover]

The majority of my experiences with kava really, Philip, are precisely that. The euphoria and relaxation forces me to remember why I don't feel this way constantly, why I use kava to relax and temporarily feel alright. I'll be in tears for hours with a heavy Vanuatu tudei, but I don't consider that a bad experience, it's character building. In fact, when I don't get super emotional and empathogenic on kava, I'm disappointed.

 

[kl.iliketofrolic]

Now, I wouldn't call it a nootropic for anyone who's been using it under a year, based on my personal experience, although I won't absolutely bet that others won't develop clarity faster.

Even tudei/high DHM kava becomes nootropic?

 

[kl.kavanah]

Philip. You broke character and destroyed my world. I have seen behind the illusion. There is no return to my lost innocence.

 

[Ed!]

I've tried again each of two nights following my first experience. I still can't say that I've felt much, but I was able to get some light sensation out of it. The effect was short-lived, and I'm not even sure how I would describe it... it was so faint that I was just aware of something without really being able to put a finger on what "it" was, but I'm hoping it's the precursor to greater experiences in the future.



The light churning stomach from my first attempt didn't happen with the second two attempts either, and I was less patient about quantity and length between drinks. I could probably drink a few glasses all at once without having any stomach problems, but I don't know if that would aid my experience at all or just make me pee more.



I have not tried intensifying the brew much yet, but I think that's my next step. I was wondering if my kava was just weak, so I had my girlfriend try some. She had a single shell on an empty stomach and started falling asleep in her chair. She described it as feeling "heavy headed"... was kind of funny to watch her start nodding off like an old fella.



So I guess it's just me. I'll keep trying. Maybe read up a bit on what some stronger kavas are.

 

[kl.iliketofrolic]

I've tried again each of two nights following my first experience. I still can't say that I've felt much, but I was able to get some light sensation out of it. The effect was short-lived, and I'm not even sure how I would describe it... it was so faint that I was just aware of something without really being able to put a finger on what "it" was, but I'm hoping it's the precursor to greater experiences in the future.



The light churning stomach from my first attempt didn't happen with the second two attempts either, and I was less patient about quantity and length between drinks. I could probably drink a few glasses all at once without having any stomach problems, but I don't know if that would aid my experience at all or just make me pee more.



I have not tried intensifying the brew much yet, but I think that's my next step. I was wondering if my kava was just weak, so I had my girlfriend try some. She had a single shell on an empty stomach and started falling asleep in her chair. She described it as feeling "heavy headed"... was kind of funny to watch her start nodding off like an old fella.



So I guess it's just me. I'll keep trying. Maybe read up a bit on what some stronger kavas are.

It has been starting to effect me a lot more recently, last night I made 3 tablespoons of Fu'u and 4 tablespoons of borguru, then tossed 1 table spoon of fu'u in my bowl and I was in a great mood night not quite Euphoria, but I had been feeling pretty shitty before I took it and I was in a really good mood after. I hadn't taken it for 2 days and it seems like I got more effect out of it. I took it a week or so ago after 6 or 7 days of having not had it and it felt like someone had turned up the gravity and like I was melting in my chair, the next day I felt it too, but then I started to not feel too much in the following few days. I think I am going to go another 3 or 4 days before I take it again so I can see if the effects are stronger. I am still experimenting with what works best, but my past few experiences have been more along the lines of what I was hoping for when I started taking this stuff.

 

[Ed!]

An update...
I drank kava pretty regularly for a week and a half without much success. I even sloshed in it one Saturday afternoon, drinking shell after shell just to see if it was a matter of quantity... and I did get an effect out of it, but it wasn't near the "sinking into the couch" kind of feeling others have described. I felt like the sensation only lasted as long as I was drinking it too (which I was holding it in my mouth and swishing it around a bit, so that may have gotten it to my head with some speed). 
I took several days off from it and then had the urge to give it a try again last night and the result was probably my best so far... still subtle and short-lived, but pleasant. The most noticeable effect was my vision becoming a unfocused, but at it's high point I also felt a warmness in my torso, felt pretty happy, and just generally felt like I wouldn't mind staring at a wall for a bit.
My best kava experiences have also been late at night (and with food in my stomach, oddly). Another strange thing is that the effect would seemingly wear off, then in maybe an hour I would get to bed, and then I'd wake up at night clearly feeling something from the kava... not numbness but the warm torso, feeling good, and consistently horny each time. So I wonder if I've been getting the effect of the kava in my head from holding it in my mouth (mild though it may be), and then the absorption through my stomach is hitting me much later.... though I would think I would have felt that on the other occasions I drank it earlier in the day if that were the case (like the Saturday afternoon I swam in it).
I think I may have been over-filtering it by putting it through multiple layers of nylon too. Last night I only used one layer and noticed the drink was a lot thicker, muddier. I also noticed last night that my kava is never "frothy" at all... which I saw a Kavasseur video where he suggested that a frothy kava is an indicator to him that it's a good one.
I was encouraged enough by last night's experience to take the next step... go all out and leave no question about whether I'm going to get much from it. So I bought some Stone, a fijian strainer, some soy lecithin, and some instant kava to add if need be. It was quite the little spending spree so hopefully it works as desired. If I'm just immune to it then I'll feed it to my girlfriend when she gets cross.

 

[kl.kavaclos]

I have been doing research on some of the most potent and user friendly KAVA experiences. Tried several different remedies but the one that caught my eye was a product called 1Hour Break. It's actually an oral spray that has very potent KAVA that acts fast with a relaxing feeling. I have been using this for a couple of months now and to be honest its been great. No preparation needed and I can carry a bottle everywhere. Fairly cheap, $10 a bottle which has about 15 servings. I hope this can help your problem ED due to all the work you have been doing to try and get the true KAVA effects. I also have tried the pill form, but it gets pricey and there is too much time before you get the effects.   If i were you I would visit the website to read more about this product. Ever since I found 1Hour Break, its opened my eyes to a whole different world of KAVA(smiley: tongue), www.1hourbreak.com


C los(smiley: smile)

 

[Ed!]

Final update...
I got my Stone in this past weekend and gave it a try. I was pretty convinced that I was that one guy in five that wouldn't be able to get much effect out of kava no matter what, but it turns out I was wrong. The Stone *definitely* had an effect on me. Where the Mahakea effect was almost non-existent and short-lived for me, Stone was strong and long-lasting. I was quite surprised by the enormous difference.
I didn't follow the package instructions, I went weaker:
0.5 cup root powder2 cups hot tap water0.5 cup almond milk
I let that mix soak for a good 1.5 hours, then I massaged it for about 15 minutes. Squeezed the liquid out then put it through my food processor then massaged it in the liquid again for another 10 minutes.
The smell and taste was also very different from the Mahakea. Stone had a strong grassy smell that the Mahakea didn't have, had a more yellow hue, and just generally felt "brighter."
I chugged instead of sipped this time around as well. Partially because I wasn't getting great results from sipping, and partially because it just didn't taste as good.
I ultimately drank all of it (5 shells) in 10 minute intervals, though I maybe should have stopped at 4 because it hadn't worn off entirely by the time I was ready to get to bed, and the whole next day I could taste it if I coughed. I would say that it gave me an intoxicated feeling, though certainly in a different way than alcohol does. I'll go lighter next time... I can't imagine if I had mixed it to full strength like the instructions say.
I'm really excited that I'm not immune to kava. That was great fun, I can't wait to make my girlfriend try it (smiley: happy)

 

[Vekta]

(smiley: happy)

Welcome to the greatest show on Earth! (smiley: pimp)
Hopefully you can get her to try some.

 

[kavalover]

lol.. I tried to get my girlfriend to drink kava... not happening. She doesn't mind the Fu'u but I can't get her to drink more than a few gulps... guess you gotta be determined to love the root hehe. If the determination isn't there, all kava will be is a bad tasting muddy drink that doesn't do anything. It's only when ya baby it and love it a little that it shows you it's goodies, and you realize just what kava truly is (smiley: happy)

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Kava increases mental clarity. I (the real person behind the Cargo Cult persona) use kava whenever I am doing intense studying for IT certifications. So far I've passed the A+, Network+ and MCDST, and currently am about 1/2 way through the Network+. In addition to relaxing the mind, it also does something to one's ability to think... perhaps due to being a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor... it enhances it.



Now, I wouldn't call it a nootropic for anyone who's been using it under a year, based on my personal experience, although I won't absolutely bet that others won't develop clarity faster.

Prince Philip, I've heard you mention a few times that you study with kava. This is of great interest to me since I spend most of my "free time" studying (although that will all change soon!! Woohoo summertime!). Can you tell me which varieties you prefer for studying and cognition?

 

[Prince Philip]

Prince Philip, I've heard you mention a few times that you study with kava. This is of great interest to me since I spend most of my "free time" studying (although that will all change soon!! Woohoo summertime!). Can you tell me which varieties you prefer for studying and cognition?

Sure, the high Kavain cultivars are going to be the best.  I would recommend Tongan white kava, Vanuatu Nobel grades, or just about anything from Hawaii.  For crunch-time, instants will save you prep time and let you devote it to study time.  Mix it up with some high DHM strands to give yourself a bit of a break every now and then, too.

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Awesome info! I really appreciate it. Now I should get back to cramming, although I do love a good distraction!