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Does kava upregulate gaba receptors?

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yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
After drinking only a small amount of kava the night before, I had some phenibut at less then my normal dosage, and I noticed the effects were way more pronounced and needless to say I didn't even take the full amount I usually do and even felt like what I took was too much. Normally I don't even feel the phenibut but it still exerts it therapeutic anxiolytic actions. I was not under the influence of kava at this time. I also noticed even 2mg valium (a very low dose) made me totally unable to function after a night of kava.


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Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
I know there had been no research on kava and phenibut but we know that kava reacts with other herbs and medicines and a lot of the time it is in a bad way. Kava is best used just in traditional way, I wish I could be of more help, aloha.

Chris
 
endwatcher

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12383029

"The pharmacological properties of kava are postulated to include blockade of voltage-gated sodium ion channels, enhanced ligand binding to gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) type A receptors,
diminished excitatory neurotransmitter release due to calcium ion channel blockade, reduced neuronal reuptake of noradrenaline (norepinephrine),
reversible inhibition of monoamine oxidase B and suppression of the synthesis of the eicosanoid thromboxane A(2), which antagonises GABA(A) receptor function"
 
endwatcher

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
Maybe it was just the synergetic effect of both of them.

I know nothing about Phenibut; was just putting it out there what pubmed had to say.
 
yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
Yeah i spent most of yesterday night scouring pubmed for an explanation. Nothing. For reference, Gaba A and Gaba B are entirely different and no cross tolerance exists between the two. Gaba A sedates, makes you sleepy, forgetful, and is anxiolytic. Gaba B is sort of a sedation/anxiolysis without tiredness, impaired motor functions/cognitive functions.
 
ThePiper

ThePiper

Kava Lover
I don't know why but this is how kava seems to work with all gaba agonists. I wonder if this applies to the gaba agonists existing naturally in the body... If so, kava must be the mbest anxiolytic on earth. We will see...:rolleyes:
 
Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
hay folks, were forgetting kava never antagonizes, :D it mellows you out, you won't feel like antagonizing any gabas or anything for that matter, unless you just found out your out of kava. :D Aloha to all.

Chris
 
kavalover

kavalover

Outsider
I've been using phenibut on and off for about a year now, fairly high doses. My only advice here? Flush that sh!t down the drain. It seems too good to be true because it really is.

Kava might have gaba activity, as it really helped me get through the withdrawals of phenibut back when I was serious about quitting.
 
yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
kavalover said:
I've been using phenibut on and off for about a year now, fairly high doses. My only advice here? Flush that sh!t down the drain. It seems too good to be true because it really is.

Kava might have gaba activity, as it really helped me get through the withdrawals of phenibut back when I was serious about quitting.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm aware of its risks but its given me my life back. I have easily tapered down many times but I just go back to my pre phenibut self, which isn't a good thing. Anxiety/depression was ruining my life. You don't have to keep increasing the dose to see a therapeutic effect past a certain point.


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yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
I see it like this, either become dependent on benzos and not able to function and still be depressed or be dependent on phenibut and be a functioning person with a chance at this mess we call life. I'll take phenibut any day. I hate benzos.


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Ecto

Ecto

Train by day, Kava by night....All day
yepimonfire said:
I see it like this, either become dependent on benzos and not able to function and still be depressed or be dependent on phenibut and be a functioning person with a chance at this mess we call life. I'll take phenibut any day. I hate benzos.
Click to expand...
I've heard horror stories about Phenibut and horror stories about benzos. I've been on a very low dose of benzos for around 8 years now with no ill effects.

In the end it all comes down to moderation and respecting the very real power these substances hold. I have to roll my eyes at some of these stories of housewives taking X10 of their daily benzo dose and then calling the drugs "evil". The same with users taking more Phenibut than they know they should. It's not the substance it's the user.

That said many nights that I drink Kava I skip my nightly benzo dose completely and I do feel a similar anxiety relief.
 
kavalover

kavalover

Outsider
yepimonfire said:
Yeah I'm aware of its risks but its given me my life back. I have easily tapered down many times but I just go back to my pre phenibut self, which isn't a good thing. Anxiety/depression was ruining my life. You don't have to keep increasing the dose to see a therapeutic effect past a certain point.
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you mean, but I'm just watching out for ya. Never before have I reacted to a substance quite like I have with Phenibut. It's a godsend, too good to be true for those of us with anxiety. But even with going 3 - 4 day wash outs between use I would begin to feel the onset of rebound depression/anxiety/panic multiplied ten fold of the reasons I began using it in the first place. I've been on Benzos my whole life practically and phenibut is just, bleh, it's something else. Maybe it has something to do with its gaba-b activity vs gaba-a, I don't know. All I know is that I wish I had never found the stuff.

Anyway, Cheers. Like I said just watching out for you.
 
yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
Most of the w/d horror stories are because people abruptly stop taking it which is obviously a dumb idea, tapering 500mg a day is a slow enough taper to not notice any w/d. I don't do the whole washout thing, I can't have 3 days of anxiety/depression and one day free. I just take it daily an realize if I ever want to go off of it (not likely, my anxiety is here to stay) I will need to taper. Kava is great for anxiety, but it's too sedating to take during the day when I have stuff to do. I also train very hard in the gym 5 days a week and I can promise you lifting weights on kava would be impossible. I can barely be bothered to get up and do minuscule tasks on kava. Benzos do the same thing to me, make me more depressed, and rob me of any motivation. I really dislike them.


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Buddhacide

Buddhacide

Kava Enthusiast
I think upregulation is the only plausible explanation for "reverse-tolerance". My vote is yes. Cross tolerance also makes sense. Although I'm not sure how this might look over a 24 hour period.
 
yepimonfire

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
Perhaps the reverse tolerance thing is explained, kava obviously modulates gaba and norepinephrine, and certain strains no doubt have a strong effect on dopamine. Upregulating gaba means there is more gaba and gaba receptors for kava to play with. It's truly amazing, almost every drug in the world down regulates whatever neurotransmitter it plays on.





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