Dua Na Bilo - methysticin vs yangonin

[Josh Bruton]

Hi everyone,
So DNB' Premium Fijian Waka is my first chemotype of(426351), the second chemotype I have tried. The only two I have tried before this (Kavafied's BATI & GHK's Hanakapi'ai) both had a chemotype of 423651. So basically, the only difference is that the ones previous to Dula Na Bilo had more [3]Yangonin than [6]'Methysticin. This Fijian Waka has more [6]'Methysticin' than on the subject ile this Fijian Waka definitely packs it's punch, is nice potent-wise, I believe I must like [3]Yangonin over [6]Methysticin. I'm not an expert on the different Kavalactones, but I do know that [3]Yangonin is a CB2 receptor agonist, and all I know about [6]Methysticin is it induces CYP1A1. I have no idea what effect [6]methysticin would have, not knowing how induction of the enzyme CYP1A1 affects the kava experience.
I used to be a daily marijuana user, and [3]Yangonin does agonize at some receptor spots within the endocannabinoid system. While i got very strong effects from the Fijian Waka, it dioesnt have a euphoric feel to it compared to the other two. This one has affected my coordination ALOT more as well as my vision. Anyone more knowledgeable able to break this down for me?

 

[kastom_lif]

It takes a lot of kava drinking, and drinking cultivars where you really know and trust the chemotype CoA's to figure out how each KL affects you.

Does methysticin cause euphoria? I'm not sure. I tend to associate that feeling with kavain, whereas I had assumed methysticin acted more like a fast-burning version of DHM.

My personal non-scientific imagined KL effects:
1 DMY: I have no idea... help?
2 DHK: the permakrunk molecule. possibly the culprit behind "kava kick" late in a session.
3 Y: potentiates certain other herbs. Surely does other stuff but I haven't figured it out.
4 K: heady, talkative, fun. @gork's favorite KL
5 DHM: the shaman molecule. great for meditating. makes you really wobbly and numb.
6 M: the Great Balancer. Gives body effects with a half-life not too much longer than heady KL effects.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Nobody knows, we mostly just have anecdotal reports and assumptions based on personal experiences and maybe a couple studies that have researched distinct kavalactones to see their duration of effects and ability to alleviate pain and anxiety. Everyone gets excited about Yangonin because they read that it has some affinity for a cannabinoid receptor, but I think some have pointed out that it's so slight it might not be significant.

What's much more obvious when it comes to individual kavalactones, is the amount of DHM (long lasting, calming, sedating, analgesic, body high, nauseating...) or the amount of Kavain (quick acting, shorter duration, happy heady buzz...). Methysticin is probably like DHM-light. In my experience, and others have noted this as well, high Yangonin can have rushy, chest tightening, heart thumping anxiogenic quality to it. Especially at times when I'm fragile to anxiety issues, a kava with high Yangonin and low DHM can give me an uneasy anxiety like feeling that is the opposite of what I want from kava. At other times, I've had high Yangonin roots that I've enjoyed greatly, but there no way to know what is actually responsible.

You also have to consider that no kava or even batch of the same kava is the same potency. If you think you like Yangonin and you had a chemotype 432xxx but it was only 5% overall kavalactones it would probably disappoint you compared to a strong 462351 chemotype that was 14% overall kavalactones. In fact, you could technically be consuming MORE yangonin even though in placed lower in the chemotype, simply due to the higher overall kavalactone content.

 

[gork]

It takes a lot of kava drinking, and drinking cultivars where you really know and trust the chemotype CoA's to figure out how each KL affects you.

Does methysticin cause euphoria? I'm not sure. I tend to associate that feeling with kavain, whereas I had assumed methysticin acted more like a fast-burning version of DHM.

My personal non-scientific imagined KL effects:
1 DMY: I have no idea... help?
2 DHK: the permakrunk molecule. possibly the culprit behind "kava kick" late in a session.
3 Y: potentiates certain other herbs. Surely does other stuff but I haven't figured it out.
4 K: heady, talkative, fun. @gork's favorite KL
5 DHM: the shaman molecule. great for meditating. makes you really wobbly and numb.
6 M: the Great Balancer. Gives body effects with a half-life not too much longer than heady KL effects.

lol I kow not of what you speak

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Nobody knows, we mostly just have anecdotal reports and assumptions based on personal experiences and maybe a couple studies that have researched distinct kavalactones to see their duration of effects and ability to alleviate pain and anxiety. Everyone gets excited about Yangonin because they read that it has some affinity for a cannabinoid receptor, but I think some have pointed out that it's so slight it might not be significant.

What's much more obvious when it comes to individual kavalactones, is the amount of DHM (long lasting, calming, sedating, analgesic, body high, nauseating...) or the amount of Kavain (quick acting, shorter duration, happy heady buzz...). Methysticin is probably like DHM-light. In my experience, and others have noted this as well, high Yangonin can have rushy, chest tightening, heart thumping anxiogenic quality to it. Especially at times when I'm fragile to anxiety issues, a kava with high Yangonin and low DHM can give me an uneasy anxiety like feeling that is the opposite of what I want from kava. At other times, I've had high Yangonin roots that I've enjoyed greatly, but there no way to know what is actually responsible.

You also have to consider that no kava or even batch of the same kava is the same potency. If you think you like Yangonin and you had a chemotype 432xxx but it was only 5% overall kavalactones it would probably disappoint you compared to a strong 462351 chemotype that was 14% overall kavalactones. In fact, you could technically be consuming MORE yangonin even though in placed lower in the chemotype, simply due to the higher overall kavalactone content.

Just want to add that my wife and son now vastly prefer later washes (4 through 6), feeling that they're getting much more enjoyable effects from the KLs that appear in later washes after the big bully superstar KLs go limp after a couple of washes. I'm kind of on the fence, I like all washes equally. I have noticed a very different character to the kava flakes I make based on what wash they are from, and the later the wash, the more primo the flake. My son now always goes to 7 washes but I still draw the line at 6. I have done 7 but for me that's too far. I understand kastom-lif might be experimenting along these lines? I think this is some fairly new and interesting territory. Maybe nakamals could sell their sludge for salvage at pennies on the dollar, the way fry shops sell old oil to turn into car fuel?

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Just want to add that my wife and son now vastly prefer later washes (4 through 6), feeling that they're getting much more enjoyable effects from the KLs that appear in later washes after the big bully superstar KLs go limp after a couple of washes. I'm kind of on the fence, I like all washes equally. I have noticed a very different character to the kava flakes I make based on what wash they are from, and the later the wash, the more primo the flake. My son now always goes to 7 washes but I still draw the line at 6. I have done 7 but for me that's too far. I understand kastom-lif might be experimenting along these lines? I think this is some fairly new and interesting territory. Maybe nakamals could sell their sludge for salvage at pennies on the dollar, the way fry shops sell old oil to turn into car fuel?

That’s so many washes! Really interesting to hear you reuse the root that much. I do three tops because it seems dead to me after that. What effects are you and your family getting exactly with this many washes?

 

[kastom_lif]

There may be hidden magic in 7th wash makas. But to admit the truth I'm all about the body. Reusing makas is simply good thrift, and if it takes you on a journey to new kava experiences, so much the better.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

That’s so many washes! Really interesting to hear you reuse the root that much. I do three tops because it seems dead to me after that. What effects are you and your family getting exactly with this many washes?

main advantages: the grog tastes better and is gentler, easier to drink. The calming effects are less raw, more refined. The key is to make it so all your washes are of equal strength, and to do that you have to adjust water ratios and quantities. You have to have accumulated enough in the freezer to start the big third wash so you end up with a non-trivial amount by the 6th wash.

 

[recentreturn]

main advantages: the grog tastes better and is gentler, easier to drink. The calming effects are less raw, more refined. The key is to make it so all your washes are of equal strength, and to do that you have to adjust water ratios and quantities. You have to have accumulated enough in the freezer to start the big third wash so you end up with a non-trivial amount by the 6th wash.

That's interesting. Just curious, how much root is in your strainer on wash number 6 (or are you using a blender by then?)?

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

That's interesting. Just curious, how much root is in your strainer on wash number 6 (or are you using a blender by then?)?

the same amount of root, but a very different amount of water. I do first and second washes 2 - 4 TBS at a time until 2 cups worth of dry grind has accumulated. Of course, the makas will be greater volume than two cups because of rehydration in the first and second washes. Anyway, that third wash is a big one, with 8 cups water added and it will yield 9 to 9.5 cups grog because the makas were hydrated. Anyway, 4th wash is 4 cups, 5th is 2.5 cups and 6th wash is 1.5 cups. If I feel it can do it, I might do a 1 cup 7th wash, but I usually don't. I do the first two washes with the AluBalls but save those makas in the freezer until enough has accumulated to do a big third wash. I do that and all subsequent washes with a large bag and knead it, 5 minutes for the 3rd wash but 10 minutes each on 4 through 6. As my son says "I love this method because you get a bucket o' kava." Seriously, the yield on a 3rd through 6th wash is 16 - 18 cups of grog. Plus whatever flakes I make.