Extract query

[Rookietwoshoes]

Not trying to beat a dead horse but I'm confused about an issue regarding PK's extracts. If tinctures are unsafe because solvent extracts contain basically all elements in kava, including ones you don't want to drink and arent inclusive of glutathione then do Co2 extracts contain glutathione ? Are they made by voiding any harmful kava elements thereby eradicating the need for glutathione?
Thanks in advance !

 

[The Kap'n]

Excellent question. I've often wondered about this myself. Unfortunately I don't have the exact answer, but it seems to me that, having consumed tinctures and CO2 extractions side by side, CO2 extracts are quite a bit easier on my system in general. Ethanol tinctures cause my skin to almost immediately dry up.

 

[Rookietwoshoes]

The fact that they may be easier on the system may not necessarily make them any safer if they don't contain glutathione , right?. But again, I'm not sure how the process of Co2 extract works despite reading several threads here on how that extraction method is the best way to go especially in relation to ethanol extracted tinctures.

 

[kavadude]

Well, first off, now we're treading in territory that is purely theoretical as to kava's effects on the liver and dependent on the contents of CO2 extracts. Remember that supercritical CO2 extraction is different from nonpolar solvent extraction. I don't think there has been peer reviewed research done on the contents of CO2 extracts vs. traditional aqueous extracts. Perhaps @Paradise Kava @Kalm with Kava @Timothy Lanier have some data.

I would very much like to see research done with a damn side by side table of the contents of different extraction methods, since right now for the most part there is disparate research on each extraction method.

 

[Rookietwoshoes]

I agree, particularly since tinctures have gotten such a bad rap.
Furthermore, is the type of strain used during extraction going to come into play with regards to the effect it has on the consumer? I would imagine that an extract made from Stone would be different than one made from Mo'i and/ or Isa. Or does chemotype get blurred and become irrelevant under Co2 extraction in terms of effect? I don't remember ever reading what strain PK uses - only that they source their honey and chocolate from Hawaii.

 

[HeadHodge]

Well my 2 cents.... My understanding is that the chemical used to extract the kava makes a difference. In extracts high pressure CO2 is used to extract Paradise (for example) extracts, while alcohol is used to create tinctures. The alcohol pulls out more undesirable by-products from the root than does the high pressure CO2 method. That's my understanding/theory. So if I'm right, you would be better off (health wise) with extracts and try to avoid tinctures.

Again, I'm not an expert.... (so Wookie, just stick to Tudei Kava and your golden!!)

 

[Rookietwoshoes]

But isn't the 'undesirable stuff' contingent upon the strain?

 

[The Kap'n]

Rookie, I think what you've stumbled upon is something we simply just don't know. However, yes the quality of either CO2 or ethanol extracts is definitely reliant on the strain and quality of starting material. What we really need is someone to come up with an extraction process that can extract very certain kavalactones. Or maybe one that could single out and extract FKB, that would be a game changer.

 

[kavadude]

Again, we're bumping up against a real lack of data here. Is flavokawain B present in CO2 extracts, is glutathione? Regardless of the answer, what happens in vivo? I wish I had a solid answer for you, but I don't.

 

[Rookietwoshoes]

I think we are 'the guinea pigs' in terms of what's happening or what will happen down the line in vivo. I also believe - given that no one really knows the exact facts - that the companies producing these extracts should be the ones with responses to these important questions. I'm hoping that they will chime in at some point otherwise I can't logically differentiate the point of abstaining from tinctures and yet indulging in C02 extracts.

 

[blindy107]

FKB that's the bad one. Sorry @Rookietwoshoes , I said it was DHK.

Well this just boils down to: are you willing to take uncertain added risk in the name of convenience? I mean, it sounds like you are all about staying healthy. With there being no absolutes in the kava world, or any other sciences really, which possible issues are you willing to let slide on your kava-brick-road to happiness?

 

[Timothy Lanier]

Well my 2 cents.... My understanding is that the chemical used to extract the kava makes a difference. In extracts high pressure CO2 is used to extract Paradise (for example) extracts, while alcohol is used to create tinctures. The alcohol pulls out more undesirable by-products from the root than does the high pressure CO2 method. That's my understanding/theory. So if I'm right, you would be better off (health wise) with extracts and try to avoid tinctures.

Again, I'm not an expert.... (so Wookie, just stick to Tudei Kava and your golden!!)