Fine vs. Coarse Grind

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

I wonder what the majority opinion is on this.
I personally hate the finely ground root.  It's such a pain to squeeze because it just shifts around from one part of the bag to the other, and you have to be really careful to not have it ooze out of the top of the bag, no matter how tight you tie it off.  And I never seem to get nearly as much of the yellow oily stuff, which I've always assumed is good.  There's a very clear difference looking at the yellow stains on my white mixing bowl with the new (fine) and old (coarse) BKH Boruguru with comparable prep.  Hell, even cleaning the straining bag is a pain since it ends up like a sticky clay and you end up having to scrape it off the inside of the bag with your nails.
I bring this up because I bought small bags of Boruguru and MeloMelo from BKH a month or so ago and loved them, so when I buy bigger bags of each, I end up getting something completely different since they switched to a finer grind.  And I don't know if it's just me but they taste/smell different as well.  By the way, I'm not knocking BKH, they seem like a great, trustworthy company.  I think it's just bad timing with them experimenting with different grinds, mixed with my sever annoyance with fine grinds.
By the way, I'm a traditional, water only, just squeeze/massage for ~10 minutes person.  I'm not sure how the finer grinds are when using blending/soaking/fatty liquids.  And obviously, the Toss-and-Wash-ers will prefer fine.
So what's your opinion?  Do you agree or am I alone in my hatred of the powdery kavas?

 

[krunkedout]

I usually prefer courser ground kavas because it is easier to squeeze. And the reason for the different taste and smell is that they are trying different processing techniques to get a fresher product I believe. Do u think it is less potent then the old batches? I don't hate fine grinds, I will buy kavas that are fine grinds but I just like the course better for some reason. The BKH strainer bags are good for the fine grinds however.

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

The new batches definitely seem less potent so far, BUT, there could be a bunch of reasons why I feel that way, none of which has to do with the actual potency of the batch.
My prep methods may just not work well with the finer grind.  I may have to squeeze twice as long.  Also I may just get so annoyed and frustrated trying to work the finer grind that I'm already in a bad mood when I start drinking, and can easily convince myself that it won't be as good as the old batch.
In other words, I'd like to say that it's less potent, but I really have no clue.  I'm convinced that any comparison between batches is pointless given the insane amount of variables with prep and the users condition.
By the way, I also use the BKH strainer bags (with some heavily reinforced stitching so the sides would stop opening up).  But lately I've been wondering if I should switch to one that's not so tightly woven since I hear it's good to allow some of the finer kava particles to escape into your drink...

 

[krunkedout]

That's why I allow the sides to stretch and open a bit, I find that it allows a good amount of particles through

 

[kl.new2kava]

Get a Fijan strainer bag, it works wonders for fine kava. I used to hate fine grinds like fu'u or van3 because I had the same reaction as everyone else, the bag clogged and it was maddening to hand squeeze. I would usually just break down and toss and wash and tht would bomb my stomach.



Fijan strainers handle the new boroguro with ease and tackles really fine grinds with no problem. I got mine for free from Paradise and now theyy sell them and are well worth the price. They are also huge to boot. I never realized it before but those tiny little muslin bags are way too small to be of any use. The fijan is a really fine mesh like that of panyhose that you can see through but really tough and pretty much unrippable, beyond that it about 12x8 inches and works great.



That said I prefer a coarser grind but not too coarse. I've found that N@H has the best grind so far. Especially their chief's is absolutely the perfect consistancy to hand squeeze being so spongy. Stone and chief's are basically the perfect grind that I've come across. KBR has a 50/50 of perfect grind and too fine, now that I have a Fijan bag it's no problem.

Bula is an either or it seem, the original boroguro was a little too coarse and the new one is a little too fine. Great kava just need to perfect the grind, the nambawen was perfect though.

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

So you think the muslin bag is the problem?
I could imagine it'd be a bit easier if some of the finer particles could seep out.  Right now it's like squeezing one of those long balloons with the kava just shifting around.
So if the muslin bags aren't good for finer ground kavas (unless you let the sides split open a bit which I don't consider a valid solution), would they be any better than Fijan bags on coarse grinds?  I'd image you'd still want the finer particles to seep out with the coarse grinds.
I guess I'm wondering what, if any, are the pros of using a muslin strainer.

 

[kl.new2kava]

Personally I never knew how entirely inadequate muslin bags were until I got a Fijan one. Muslin bags are basically rubbish in my opinion now and I would never go back, if the one I'm using breaks I'll get a new one. In fact I should order up a spare just to have one in case that happens because I can't bear to go back to muslin.



Fijan works well for any grind, coarse or fine. I was using it with great success with the micronized boroguro and with no problems and frustration, able to wring it out like any other grind. Then used the next day for chief's with ease. Coarse will always make for a better hand squeezing experiance and chief's is the best grind and texture I've come across. Like a kavalactone containing sponge that smells like pine.



I remember trying to use a muslin bag for fu'u and van3 and ripping it after a maddening 20 minutes to get one haf squeeze where only some of the liquid came out. That doesn't happen with fijan, ever. There really is no upside to muslin bags other than they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. I think N@H's are just paint straining bags anyway.



Seriously hit up paradise or kickbackwithkava and get a fijan bag. You'll be so happy next time you go to strain some fine grind kava.

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

Huh, I didn't realize the muslin bags were relatively cheap compared to others.  I thought they were higher quality for some reason.
I actually have some N@H bags currently on their way for something different, but I just put in an order for the 4-pack of Paradise's bags since you've instilled me with such confidence that they will solve all my life's problems.  Hey, look, there are even good customer reviews...
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Bula Kava House]

Hi Everyone. As stated above, we are working on the processing to make a better kava for everyone. The different taste, consistency, and smell are a result of this. The first batch at this attempt to change resulted in an extremely fine grind (supplier got a little trigger happy with a new grinder), with a different smell and taste that I found to be almost like cinnamon. We received a new batch a couple days ago that is very slightly coarser and with a smell and taste more like our older batches. If you ask me, it's still a bit too fine but is more manageable. Most feedback we've gotten so far is that even though it is more difficult to squeeze, it seems more potent which is what we were going for.



The next shipment, which isn't too far off, will be slightly coarser (hoping that we will have found the perfect grind). The grind is quite important, when it's too coarse, extraction of kavalactones is hindered. Too fine and it is a bitch to squeeze. Trust us, we squeeze about eight gallons daily. We're simply trying to put out the best product possible, your feedback is invaluable. Thank you. Please keep letting us know your impressions and preferences.

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

Well it's good to hear that I'm not the only one that has problems with the fine stuff.  I've always loved your products and service, and I'm looking forward to trying your optimal grind once you get it nailed down.  In the meantime, I'm hoping different strainer bags will help ease my annoyance of getting through the finer stuff that I have.
Out of curiosity, where do you think the best grind lies?  Thicker than the old Boroguru/Melo Melo?  Finer than Nambawan?  Somewhere in between?  Or is that something you're still trying to figure out with these batches.

 

[kl.new2kava]

Judd, you guys should consider getting a grinder. It seems you sell alot of kava and I imagine it becomes cheaper to buy the root whole, though it may be bulkier and a little more costly to ship. I'm not sure if it would be economically feasible or not. I'm only an enthusiest in the matter and have no idea about the importation and business aspect.

 

[Bula Kava House]

Imsocold- I think the perfect grind is just a tiny bit coarser than Nambawan.



New2kava- Hammer mills are quite expensive, they use a lot of electricity, and grinding is time consuming. Shipping whole root is also way more expensive because of the shipment size. Kava suppliers are accustomed to doing the grinding so having it preground is actually quite cheap.