How do I prepare kava for maximum extraction of kavalactones?

[kl.seanstermatic]

Hello! First post. Glad to be a member. I have recently jumped on the kava train and have been enjoying it. My first attempt was with Kona Kava and I didn't like that so much (weak). So I bought some of Rex's stuff and man is that good!

So my question relates to what method of kava preparation will give the best results. I have seen people using lechitin, olive oil, milk, and some people instead use water with brute squeezing powers. So which method do you consider the best in terms of maximum extraction of the kavalactones?

I suppose this kind of discussion will be nothing but anecdotes but I'm hoping I'll find some kind of trend. I'll put numbers to each question so people can address points specifically.

1. So, are oils or fats really necessary for kavalactone extraction?
2. Have people tried using simply water and a combination of oil/water and found comparable results?
3. Are certain oils/fats more effective? Or is it just a matter of what tastes best?
4. If using only water, is repetitive squeezing and soaking what achieves maximum extraction?
5. Is less work required if oils/fats are introduced?
6. What effect does soaking the kava have?
7. If I were to soak a cup of kava in 2 cups of milk, and the following day I strain this and then put the strained kava into more milk and let it soak for another 24 hours and then strain this...After 3 days would you expect that I've extracted all that I could extract? Can the same be said for using water?

I've read reports of increased potency after allowing the extract to sit overnight. I wonder if this is due to greater extraction of kavalactones from residual kava powder (the finer particles which can be difficult to filter) that increases due to time of soaking.


I understand that this information may not be relevant for most but I don't have a lot of money to spend on kava so knowing what approach is best does matter to me (and probably others!). And I always take pride in knowing what is the most efficient way of doing things.

Thank you!!

 

[kl.seanstermatic]

Referring to this link: http://kavalounge.yuku.co...-prep--kava#.TzNkqoGYuE8

Seems like kneading 3 times at 120 second intervals in 45*C water (3:1 water to kava) resulted in 54% extraction. I'm sure including fats/oils and increasing soak time would help. My idea is that soaking for some time (24 h?) in a solution containing sufficient fats (a cup of milk?) with periodic agitation would probably extract much more. Combine this with straining of the mixture after 12 hours and repeating would probably extract a good (nearly 100%?) amount. What do you think?

I wish I had access to a gas chromatography device. Anyone know how to measure kavalactones using what would be available in a molecular biology lab?

 

[Dan]

I think you've nailed most of the variables in prep that a lotta seasoned Kava drinkers try to come to terms with.  

Regarding 6) and 7), I'm curious about longer-term soaking, too, though I suspect it wouldn't do too much, esp. at cold temperatures.  Seems like agitation and a bit of heat are the most crucial steps for extraction.

Also, I've tried but never reaped any appreciable rewards from multiple squeezing/kneadings, and tend to favor blending and squeezing/kneading one time apiece.  And I always add lecithin, but only because it comes recommended so much.  Seems like it can't hurt either way.

So for what it's worth the routine I've settled on over the last two years is:

1)  Soak kava (usually three-four tbs) & lecithin for fifteen minutes.  (At the start the water is mix of one cup boiling, one cup cold.)
2)  Blend mixture, ten-fifteen seconds.
3)  Soak for another fifteen minutes, add a little a more heat to maintain temperature.
5)  Squeeze and strain and serve.

Also note: from time to time I accidentally briefly boil my kava mix in the pan and have never noticed any diminishing in potency.

 

[Steve973]

I am not a chemist, so take my comments in stride if you wish. However, since kavalactones are reportedly not water soluble, then what benefit could come from soaking it? In what passes for my understanding, the process of soaking and squeezing is purely mechanical; you soak just enough to get water into the fibers so that you can squeeze stuff out. If kavalactones are, indeed, lipid soluble, then soaking might help somewhat if you add fats. However, I am not sure how you could homogenize fats so that they maintain contact with the root material while soaking for extended periods. Maybe a stir plate with sufficient agitation would help somewhat here.

 

[Steve973]

Dan, note that the boiling water portion is to help dissolve your lecithin. If you are not adding your lecithin to your boiling water, then there's no reason not to simply heat your entire water up to your desired temperature all at once.

 

[Dan]

Dan, note that the boiling water portion is to help dissolve your lecithin. If you are not adding your lecithin to your boiling water, then there's no reason not to simply heat your entire water up to your desired temperature all at once.

Yeah, it's just my very approximate way of hitting a temperature roughly in the 130 degree range without using a thermometer.  1 cup boiling (212) + 1 cup cold (65) comes out somewhere in the appropriate range by my crude reckoning.  

I know, I know, I just need to get a thermometer.

 

[kl.seanstermatic]

Steve, I agree that constant stirring would probably be the best way to ensure contact with the lipids/kavalactones because I don't think you'll get a homogenate mixture (if you add oil to water, the oil will float to the top). This is why I think milk is probably the best thing to use - because it is a homogenate mixture. If you simply add 1 cup milk (1-3%) to 2 cups water (or similar) I feel like this would be sufficient to encourage a better extraction. Letting it soak for longer might help, but I don't know to what degree.

I read a paper today regarding glutathione and kavalactones. Surprisingly there's quite a bit of research on kava, so as a scientist I was pleased. But apparently the ratio of glutathione and kava is very important for the health of your liver. Standard preparation of kava yields somewhat equal amounts of glutathione and kavalactones, but when extracted using superior solvents like ethanol, mainly the kavalactones are extracted and not the glutathione. Glutathione may react with kavalactones and this complex may pass through the liver, but in the absence of glutathione the liver has to work harder to break down the kavalactones. So my worry would be that extracting too much might be a bad thing (the ratio of glutathione:kavalactones might be off)...?

This paper also mentioned quantification of kavalactones using a spectrophotometer (an instrument which I do have access to) at 260 nm. I don't suppose anyone knows anything more about this?

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

I think the glutathione being in a homogenized lipid-based emulsion is significant as ingested glutathione typically does not contribute to increased serum glutathione. If you google about treatment for Tylenol overdose, you will find articles that suggest that taking metabolic precursors for glutathione has a larger effect, in fact one precursor, N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) is a standard treatment for Tylenol overdose. I'm taking a NAC supplement just to be on the safe side. I think fat-like substances may be absorbed more through the lumen of the small intestines than through the stomach and then are absorbed into the lymph system, which takes a different route to the liver. Hypothetically, that means that at least some of the glutathione could be carried within kavalactone particles and get to the liver through the lymph system rather than being absorbed elsewhere in the body and simply metabolized.



Another risk factor to consider is that there are lectin substances like Kawain B that the traditional preparation method with water do not extract but which are found in solvent extracts of kava. There is an article that suggested that these substances could play a role in liver toxicity, but not necessarily independent of other factors. I suspect that the value of the traditional extraction method is to differentially separate the substances that cause less liver damage from the substances that create more liver damage. The further the method strays from the traditional method, the greater the risk that these substances will not be adequately differentiated in the prep but instead emulsified together. Also, the smaller the kavalactone particles, the more likely that the glutathione will simply dissolve into the water and absorbed into the body differently. I think that micronizing the kava root the way that some suppliers do may be risky, for example there has been some evidence that other substances that are micronized or broken down into nanoparticles are absorbed into the body in a way that they should not be, for example with some sunscreens it has been shown that people actually absorb some titanium dioxide through the skin and into the bloodstream when it is broken down into nanoparticles, and no one is sure yet what effects this could have.



That said, I gave some thought to how common emulsions are created, like salad dressing and homogenized milk. When creating an emulsion, mechanics are typically more important to the extraction process than other factors like chemistry, except for the spontaneous hydrolysis of kavalactones at about 60 C. I'm not sure how risky this is, but I like to use a jar and shake the kava, I believe that this creates processing that is somewhat analogous to using stones to grind kava (but without causing a disaster in the kitchen and having my wife kill me). I use a 32 oz wide mouth water bottle. I think the addition of something like pebbles or another hard, abrasive substance could improve this process.

 

[kl.seanstermatic]

thanks gray owl! lots of interesting information. where did you get that information about kavalactone hydrolysis at 60*C? i'd be interested in the reference...

I think sticking to a mainly water-based extraction will eliminate the possibility of carrying over some of the "bad" kava chemicals. I think that problems with the liver are more common today with kava extracts that might carry over some nasty chemicals. But traditionally this hasn't been a problem, probably because many of these nasties aren't soluble in water.

So I wonder how our knowledge of chemistry today would influence the outcome of our kava preparations. Chemistry has taught me that kavalactones are more soluble in fat. And I want more kavalactones. But what else am I carrying along with it? I don't know very much about traditional kava preparation, but I assume it's entirely water based, and history has shown that these users have been healthy. But their diets are likely to be very different from ours...so who knows what health risk we impose on ourselves from changing the preparation?

It's probably best to stick to with what works. Do it in water like it's been done before. Soak it for awhile, then squeeze the liquid out, and repeat several times. No need for oils or fats or specific temperatures. People have done it like this for many years. As long as you enjoy preparing it (which I believe is a great part of the kava experience) and the final product puts a smile on your face who cares...

But I think I'll still include a little milk in my preparation. (smiley: laugh)

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

It's usually cited (and widely cited) as 140 F [corrected from 141 F] I'm finding references that refer to kavalactones being unstable in hot water, but no specific reference to that temperature. I have read so much on kava that I simply do not remember which specific reference, maybe somebody else here remembers, if I come across it I will post. Taking a step back, most lactones require a base to hydrolyze, but there is something about the structure of kavalactones that makes them hydrolyze with heat alone.

I have ordered a Buchner funnel, 90 mm filters, vacuum flask, rubber seals, hand vacuum pump.  Mostly, I reminisce for Buchner funnels past.  Chemistry gives me a feeling of being a mini-creator, combining elements that might rarely combine in nature.  Getting a precipitate is like magic.  Watching a distiller hit the eutectic point and the temperature shoots up abruptly.  Indicator changes color.  Good times, bra.

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

I'm not getting enough suction on the Buchner with the hand pump so ordered an aspirator pump--I was hoping to do this without wasting water, but ah well, most electric vacuum pumps tend to be noisy unless you reuse a hermetic condenser e.g. a refrigerator compressor and turn it into a pump. I did note that it trapped a lot of the superfine micronized powder, but wonder if it pulled out some of the kavalactones as well.



Lecithin is probably more useful than oil, the process is like making cocoa or nut milk, you're making an emulsion of something that is not water soluble, lecithin is an emulsifier basically a detergent or surfactant but edible. I have a hunch but no evidence that the emulsified oil in coconut milk is likely to be the most effective, white chocolate or cocoa butter would also be interesting additions, so would regular chocolate but it tends to give me migraines. In terms of taste, coconut is good, some of the other oils may taste a bit weird. Another thought is to try adding a very small amount of acid, like some juice, if that would help the lecithin work any better. Base will probably hydrolyze the kavalactones making them inactive, so base is probably not useful.



As for soaking overnight it's free and it probably doesn't hurt anything, if it stretches the kava a bit further, then why not? My concern would be if it makes it taste worse without improving the effects.



I'm converting to metric and weighing the kava in grams, this lets me think a bit more easily about how many sessions I can get out of a bag of root. From a 1 pound bag, which is about 453 g, at 90 g per batch would give about 5 sessions and 75 g would give 6 sessions. With HKC Mo'i, Kule'a Kava Isa, and HKC Tuday, 90 g came out to a bit more than a cup and 75 g would probably come out to less than a cup. I made 90 g in 750 ml of water. I'm going to try 75 g next time, if that's strong enough, it would be nice to get 6 sessions out of a 1 lb bag. Hopefully, my tolerance will continue to decrease, or this could be an expensive hobby. 65 g would be 7 batches, 56 g is 8 batches, 50 g is 9 batches, 45 g is 10 batches and so on. 70 g would give 6 1/2 batches I think that's probably going to be the most batches that I can get out of a pound but may be better or worse depending on the variety.



About 4 tsp of sarsaparilla root in a batch is really nice--really need to work that out in grams next time--it cuts the harshness and bitterness of a stronger-tasting kava nicely.

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

I just ordered Sundesa Blenderbottle with Blenderball 28 oz. I have really enjoyed shaking in a bottle to mix up the kava, also I make less mess in the kitchen that way which keeps my wife from getting mad at me--I clean up after myself anyway, but I am not as meticulous as her.  Here is a link to the product information on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/...f=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

 

[endwatcher]

Pretty sweet. Hows it seal up, nice?

Everythime I buy something like that, it works great for a month or so, then plops out on me....sux

Been trying to find something that doesnt crap out

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

Pretty sweet. Hows it seal up, nice?

Everythime I buy something like that, it works great for a month or so, then plops out on me....sux

Been trying to find something that doesnt crap out

I've been using a Coleman 32 oz polycarbonate water bottle, it's designed for hiking and camping and has been very solid.  I haven't got the new thing yet with the shaker ball, time will tell.  I figure at least I can use the shaker ball in the Coleman bottle.  I thought I was going to be making some kava for a party at a friend's house so I got a Nalgene 2 liter polypropylene bottle to make larger batches, but haven't used it yet.