new-kavadonia
Kava Curious
I originally posted it to Reddit give it a try and see what you think:
I thought I might share my new prep method here:
- Thread starter new-kavadonia
- Start date
That is an incredible amount of prep for kava, but your first sentence explained why. Ireland.
You're trying to get your moneys worth on an already prohibitively expensive botanical item. I get you.
It looks like to me that you may be doing TOO GOOD of a job extracting kavalactones, and continue to make yourself sick due to the overabundance. It looks like, for your new method, you're continuing to use heat, but then dilute the resultant mixture further. You're pulling out more from your kava than you should be, but then diluting them back to an acceptable level for yourself.
The reality is that we never have been able to extract every single KL in our prep phase, and shooting for this will net decreasing returns (aka nausea). Dihydromethysticin (DHM) is one of the only partly water soluble kavalactones, and as such you will end up extracting far more in this scenario, causing the nausea.
I highly doubt the starch is what's making you sick there. In my opinion it's the sheer volume of kavalactones and other chalcones that are extracted after vigorous boiling.
new-kavadonia
Kava Curious
Sorry I didn't mean to blame the starch alone as the culprit of nausea if that's how it comes across in the post. It's more the starch was a major barrier to making the boil up method a viable option for extracting everything from my kava since the boiling was causing the starch to gelatinize which not only made a hideous mess in the kitchen but also left thick gloopy kava that had tonnes of sediment suspended in the kava that would never settle (which is what I was blaming on nausea since I usually avoid the sediment at the bottom of a drink of kava even in traditional prep, but now it was suspended indefinitely in the drink).
Even if I am extracting too much for a normal shell of kava I think this method has some possibilities for people making at home DIY kava concentrates for kava mocktails and the like (I was thinking of trying to freeze some kava made this way in an ice cube tray and serve myself some as needed during the coming hot days). Also just as a way to save money for those of us that kava is even more expensive.
I have seen others mentioning DHM and DHK as causes of nausea, and even nausea is caused by the numbing effect of kava freaking out your stomach. Some people also say it's the root fibers and not the kavalactones themselves (but I wonder is it the fiber or just the kavalactones still trapped in the root?). Has there been any research on the nauseating effects of kava or is it mostly still just anecdotal and speculation? As much as I love kava trying to find reliable information to get the most out of the plant is difficult and seems to rely mostly on hearsay, anecdotes, and speculation which I think too often turns into a game of Chinese whispers where there are these accepted kava facts that you can never really find a source on.
Even if I am extracting too much for a normal shell of kava I think this method has some possibilities for people making at home DIY kava concentrates for kava mocktails and the like (I was thinking of trying to freeze some kava made this way in an ice cube tray and serve myself some as needed during the coming hot days). Also just as a way to save money for those of us that kava is even more expensive.
I have seen others mentioning DHM and DHK as causes of nausea, and even nausea is caused by the numbing effect of kava freaking out your stomach. Some people also say it's the root fibers and not the kavalactones themselves (but I wonder is it the fiber or just the kavalactones still trapped in the root?). Has there been any research on the nauseating effects of kava or is it mostly still just anecdotal and speculation? As much as I love kava trying to find reliable information to get the most out of the plant is difficult and seems to rely mostly on hearsay, anecdotes, and speculation which I think too often turns into a game of Chinese whispers where there are these accepted kava facts that you can never really find a source on.
You just landed on the mother load of kava information. It has been here for nearly 10 years. There are tons of research covering A to Z. Enjoy the reading.
I'll pass on the prep, all I need is a bowl, water, my hands and about 5-6 minutes. I recommend you keep it simple.
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new-kavadonia
Kava Curious
Hahahaha I'll keep it simple when I can afford to keep it simple. With it's current cost and only working part time I don't mind putting in the extra time to make sure I'm getting the most out of my kava as possible. What I lose in time I make up for in money. It's not that cumbersome either I kind of check in as I'm going about my day it doesn't take that much effort just a little forward planning.
Oh gotcha. I see what you're saying. It was more standing in the way of you getting the most out of it.
Very much so.
I'm gonna throw this out there, as I've heard several people mention it, but amylase enzyme will destroy starch as well, yet I haven't seen anyone attempt it with kava.
Kavalactones remain bound to roof fibers and to some extent the starches themselves. That being the case, you've probably liberated quite a bit just by boiling.
In standard, non-boiled grog, the majority of the good stuff will be in the sediment.
In regards to facts, you're right, there are opinions abound, however here we run on what the experts say, and this information regarding starch, root fibers, and kavalactones comes from Dr. Vincent Lebot, kava researcher in Vanuatu.
new-kavadonia
Kava Curious
That's an interesting idea with the amylase it might be worth giving a shot. I feel like kava as a world drug of choice is still definitely in its infancy. It would be nice to see more research done and more experimenting with different methods of prep to make it more affordable and palatable to the rest of the world which might see it rival alcohol and cannabis. It's a shame it seems most of the research seems to have peaked in the 90s and early 2000s (what I've read so far anyway) so it would be nice to see more papers published.
Speaking of all this I was just thinking of what you said here. Are there any good papers on the solubility of specific kavalactones in water and oils? It would be interesting to see if different prep methods could be developed to only extract specific kavalactones. Like could you do a cold water wash to try and remove as much DHM as possible and then use fresh water to extract the more lipid-soluble kavalactones still bound up in the root? Most likely wouldn't work but it would be fun to see kavalactones' specific prep methods. I do kind of like being a kava enthusiast when it is still rather niche tho.
Here's my public list.
Kava Research
kavaforums.com
FULL list of research attached
Best bet is https://lktlabs.com/
You'll have to use the old spelling of the kavalactones such as Kawain and dihydrokawain but it will give you the chemical specifics such as solubility.
new-kavadonia
Kava Curious
Amazing! Thank you. I better be careful not to spend too much time on this I can get a little obsessive with things and I'm supposed to be working on my thesis right now not spending hours on kava research.
Btw have you never thought about trying to maybe write a book on kava or something? Publish a definitive guide to the plant that has everything all in one place for those with maybe a nerdier interest in the plant?
Something similar at least
kavafacts.substack.com
and kava itself isn’t addictive but kava research absolutely is, lol. It’s a deep dive with many dead ends but it’s fascinating.
And you're absolutely right!
They did add natural amylase back in the day
(For those out of the loop, we're referring to the method of preparation still used on Tanna Island in Vanuatu where the participants would chew the kava into quids, then strain it through a cloth or hibiscus fibers.)
WaitingForGrogot
Kava Curious
Great post - i'm also in the same situation of trying to get the most out of my kava due to my location in the world! I've tried a bunch of methods but not this one - I usually boil and blend but the think starch-heavy liquid, as a result, is incredibly difficult to strain - I've gone through a lot of 100 micron nylon straining bags doing this (I once broke a cafetiere - don't try it, lol). I've settled on doing several cold washes with the kava and then freezing the leftovers. When you have a bunch you can boil up the remains, liquidize them in a good food processor, and then strain. I'm going to try your method as well.
Zaphod
Kava Lover
Many, many, ways to prepare kava. Some are better at getting more out and some are just more efficient. For myself I am lazy so I probably leave a lot behind (I know it is a sacrilege but the reason I drink kava is to chill and I just can't add worrying about getting every last bit out). You should look at two things to get the most extraction possible one the CTAHR method and the conclusions from that, and two look into doing a mongrel grog with the frozen leftovers. Both have been discussed a lot so a quick search and you will find lots of discussions.
Plantacious
Kava Enthusiast
No bag ? Or was that implied ?
I havn't heard of kneading without a bag, although it surely sounds possible. I guess you would just strain it afterwards, if you did it without a bag ?
With a 75-100 micron strainer.