I'm preparing to sell carbonated kava

[Aloha Kava]

Hey everyone,

I posted this on the kava subreddit and someone suggested talking about it here:

I'm in the final stages of starting a small business selling carbonated, bottled kava. Put in 12oz bottles, basically it'd be just like a beer but kava instead. My focus is in-store sales, but I'm checking consumer interest on how viable throwing stock up on amazon would be.

Quick description: literally CO2 and kava. The carbonation cuts a lot of the gross taste out, leaving a pleasant, earthy bubbly flavor. The great thing about doing it this way instead of trying to add juices or etc is you still retain the taste of kava, it's just sans the harsh aftertaste. This both retains the connective, naturalistic, "hippie" element we all love, but takes away that almost vodka-esque headshake after a big chug.

Interested? Unfortunately the only real way it'd be viable for me online would be to sell it on amazon, $20 for a six pack with $10 shipping. Going by the standard 4oz = 1 shell measure, that equates to a little over 3 bucks for a triple shell (1 bottle). This is obviously a push into the high end. Perhaps later I can reduce pricing via sales volume.

Anyway, just wanted to post here to see if anyone was interested or had any thoughts. Here's a link to a short vid of me showing it/talking about it:

 

[The Kap'n]

The kava burps would probably be my only issue

This is interesting. Are you using a Vanuatu kava?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I think it might be marketable to certain non-established kava drinkers...but most established kava drinkers will not incorporate a carbonated kava beer into their routine, apart from the initial curiosity. To be completely honest, carbonated kava sounds absolutely disgusting to me, but if what you say is true, and carbonation actually makes the kava more palatable, then maybe you are on to something.

Non-traditional kava products also tend to be more expensive relative to the amount of use/effects you get from it, which might my biggest aversion to things like this. At a time when traditional root powder, which is the most cost effective, is already too costly itself. I find it hard to get into anything else that would likely cost more and give less. In my opinion, potential kava entrepreneurs should be pushing innovation and growth in the bottled shelf-stable FRESH kava department, like pacificrootskava.com . Some healthy competition in that arena could potentially lead to good advancements in the technology, a variety of cultivars available and reductions in cost/price. I think that's the best path for the kava industry, it has the to potential to appeal to more drinkers and potential drinkers.

Sorry if I seem too down on your idea, I do appreciate people trying to innovate with kava. But just figured I'd be honest with you. The kava business is hard enough to make profitable as it is (unless you grow your own plants), niche kava products are even harder. I will say though, if I knew your kava beer was carried at certain stores(Trader Joe's, Gas Stations, Whole Foods etc...), I could imagine situations where'd I'd stop by and pick up a couple out of sheer convenience. That being said, if the same store also sold bottled fresh nakamal kava...I would always choose that instead.

 

[Edward]

That just makes me think of @HeadHodge sitting with his glass of ginger beer and some micronised mixed in! I'd be interested in what effect the carbonation would have on kava nausea, better or worse?

 

[Edward]

Anyway I'm convinced the guy in the video is a young Dave Brock! (from Hawkwind)

 

[Alia]

Hey everyone,

I posted this on the kava subreddit and someone suggested talking about it here:

I'm in the final stages of starting a small business selling carbonated, bottled kava. Put in 12oz bottles, basically it'd be just like a beer but kava instead. My focus is in-store sales, but I'm checking consumer interest on how viable throwing stock up on amazon would be.

Quick description: literally CO2 and kava. The carbonation cuts a lot of the gross taste out, leaving a pleasant, earthy bubbly flavor. The great thing about doing it this way instead of trying to add juices or etc is you still retain the taste of kava, it's just sans the harsh aftertaste. This both retains the connective, naturalistic, "hippie" element we all love, but takes away that almost vodka-esque headshake after a big chug.

Interested? Unfortunately the only real way it'd be viable for me online would be to sell it on amazon, $20 for a six pack with $10 shipping. Going by the standard 4oz = 1 shell measure, that equates to a little over 3 bucks for a triple shell (1 bottle). This is obviously a push into the high end. Perhaps later I can reduce pricing via sales volume.

Anyway, just wanted to post here to see if anyone was interested or had any thoughts. Here's a link to a short vid of me showing it/talking about it:

This was done to some success in the late 1990's with "Drinks That Work"
might have WORKED but ran head-on in to the liver myth.
We'll never know.
However I think they used extract mixed with other ingredients.
You might want to offer more details such as is it fresh or dry kava? Is it an extract?

 

[TheKavaSociety]

I think shelf stability will be a huge issue, unless you pack it with some powerful preservatives, treat it or ferment it.

Also, note that technically kava is a dietary supplement in America and as such it must be manufactured in an appropriate facility etc. Even if it was regulated as food, you likely would need a food grade facility to be able to manufacture it.

 

[AlexisReal]

Hey everyone,

I posted this on the kava subreddit and someone suggested talking about it here:

I'm in the final stages of starting a small business selling carbonated, bottled kava. Put in 12oz bottles, basically it'd be just like a beer but kava instead. My focus is in-store sales, but I'm checking consumer interest on how viable throwing stock up on amazon would be.

Quick description: literally CO2 and kava. The carbonation cuts a lot of the gross taste out, leaving a pleasant, earthy bubbly flavor. The great thing about doing it this way instead of trying to add juices or etc is you still retain the taste of kava, it's just sans the harsh aftertaste. This both retains the connective, naturalistic, "hippie" element we all love, but takes away that almost vodka-esque headshake after a big chug.

Interested? Unfortunately the only real way it'd be viable for me online would be to sell it on amazon, $20 for a six pack with $10 shipping. Going by the standard 4oz = 1 shell measure, that equates to a little over 3 bucks for a triple shell (1 bottle). This is obviously a push into the high end. Perhaps later I can reduce pricing via sales volume.

Anyway, just wanted to post here to see if anyone was interested or had any thoughts. Here's a link to a short vid of me showing it/talking about it:

Hello and a warm welcome. Excuse my naivety, but could we all not just use carbonated water ourselves when we prepare our own Kava?

It would undoubtedly be significantly cheaper, and I feel that the majority of Kava lovers enjoy and cherish, sacriligiously, the preparation process, also being able to try all of the different available kava cultivars out there.

I wish you success of course, but I can't help think this way.

 

[Aloha Kava]

The kava burps would probably be my only issue

This is interesting. Are you using a Vanuatu kava?

I'm open to new ideas, but for now I'm using a blend of waka and and more heady vanuatu kava. I think it really gives the best of both worlds, giving both a defined hit so you feel it, but it's still light enough to not relax you too much. Works for day or evening. As for the burps, I haven't experienced anything gnarly yet!

 

[Aloha Kava]

I think it might be marketable to certain non-established kava drinkers...but most established kava drinkers will not incorporate a carbonated kava beer into their routine, apart from the initial curiosity. To be completely honest, carbonated kava sounds absolutely disgusting to me, but if what you say is true, and carbonation actually makes the kava more palatable, then maybe you are on to something.

Non-traditional kava products also tend to be more expensive relative to the amount of use/effects you get from it, which might my biggest aversion to things like this. At a time when traditional root powder, which is the most cost effective, is already too costly itself. I find it hard to get into anything else that would likely cost more and give less. In my opinion, potential kava entrepreneurs should be pushing innovation and growth in the bottled shelf-stable FRESH kava department, like pacificrootskava.com . Some healthy competition in that arena could potentially lead to good advancements in the technology, a variety of cultivars available and reductions in cost/price. I think that's the best path for the kava industry, it has the to potential to appeal to more drinkers and potential drinkers.

Sorry if I seem too down on your idea, I do appreciate people trying to innovate with kava. But just figured I'd be honest with you. The kava business is hard enough to make profitable as it is (unless you grow your own plants), niche kava products are even harder. I will say though, if I knew your kava beer was carried at certain stores(Trader Joe's, Gas Stations, Whole Foods etc...), I could imagine situations where'd I'd stop by and pick up a couple out of sheer convenience. That being said, if the same store also sold bottled fresh nakamal kava...I would always choose that instead.

You may have misinterpreted what I said. It is fresh kava, and it is shelf stable. It's the usual strained, fresh kava we all make at home, but with carbonation and bottled.

That just makes me think of @HeadHodge sitting with his glass of ginger beer and some micronised mixed in! I'd be interested in what effect the carbonation would have on kava nausea, better or worse?

I haven't experienced any adverse effects with the carbonation. No additional nausea, burps, stomach ache, etc. If anything, and again this is anecdotal, but for me I get less nausea or etc on average. Also hah yeah we do look alike

This was done to some success in the late 1990's with "Drinks That Work"
might have WORKED but ran head-on in to the liver myth.
We'll never know.
However I think they used extract mixed with other ingredients.
You might want to offer more details such as is it fresh or dry kava? Is it an extract?

Like I said with "literally C02 and kava," it's fresh kava. I make it how we all do, soaking ground root in water and straining it. I then carbonate that and bottle it. Nothin to it, really. I also add a small amount of lactic acid for shelf stability. It's not enough to taste. I can, though, add a little bit more if desired to add a tang. Sounds gross in relation to kava, but it's quite good.

I think shelf stability will be a huge issue, unless you pack it with some powerful preservatives, treat it or ferment it.

Also, note that technically kava is a dietary supplement in America and as such it must be manufactured in an appropriate facility etc. Even if it was regulated as food, you likely would need a food grade facility to be able to manufacture it.

I've looked into it, called the FDA and health departments, and actually dietary supplements are far easier to deal with than food. As long as I use a commercial kitchen, it's fine. Support kitchens are everywhere and charge pennies to use them, and even local churches are often certified in this regard.

Hello and a warm welcome. Excuse my naivety, but could we all not just use carbonated water ourselves when we prefer our own Kava?

It would undoubtedly be significantly cheaper, and I feel that the majority of Kava lovers enjoy and cherish, sacriligiously, the preparation process, also being able to try all of the different available kava cultivars out there.

I wish you success of course, but I can't help think this way.

There are three ways to go with this. One is to pour carbonated water into kava after the fact. This both dilutes the kava and doesn't add enough bubbles to really have any value. Two is to use carbonated water instead of still while you are soaking, kneading, and straining. By the time you're done with this, most of the bubbles are gone and you're again left without the desired effect. The third way is to carbonate it after making it, which is what I do. And unless you bottle it, of course the fizz goes away quickly.

Anyway throw whatever other questions you have at me. Like I said, I'm aiming for more in-store sales due to shipping costs and that hardcore kava drinkers want to make it themselves anyway, but I was just checking to see if there was online interest. Imagine: you're at a store buying a sandwich, or you're on the go in your day and stop by a corner store, and you can just buy a refreshing, ice cold, bubbly bottle of kava? You're paying for convenience, but that's what we all do for a lot of things.

 

[Yogini]

I don't sip my shells so it's 'down the hatch' for me. I don't actually mind doing it that way and the taste isn't that bad for me. It never has been. I am going to be trying the shelf stable green juice soon but I don't have much of an interest in carbonated kava. It would be very filling and people might not hydrate as much as they need to. That's just my feeling but I wish you well.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

@Variyen Just to be clear, when we say 'fresh kava', we mean fresh undried roots, as they were when pulled out of the ground. Not a freshly prepared batch of dried ground kava powder.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

You may have misinterpreted what I said. It is fresh kava, and it is shelf stable. It's the usual strained, fresh kava we all make at home, but with carbonation and bottled.



I haven't experienced any adverse effects with the carbonation. No additional nausea, burps, stomach ache, etc. If anything, and again this is anecdotal, but for me I get less nausea or etc on average. Also hah yeah we do look alike



Like I said with "literally C02 and kava," it's fresh kava. I make it how we all do, soaking ground root in water and straining it. I then carbonate that and bottle it. Nothin to it, really. I also add a small amount of lactic acid for shelf stability. It's not enough to taste. I can, though, add a little bit more if desired to add a tang. Sounds gross in relation to kava, but it's quite good.



I've looked into it, called the FDA and health departments, and actually dietary supplements are far easier to deal with than food. As long as I use a commercial kitchen, it's fine. Support kitchens are everywhere and charge pennies to use them, and even local churches are often certified in this regard.



There are three ways to go with this. One is to pour carbonated water into kava after the fact. This both dilutes the kava and doesn't add enough bubbles to really have any value. Two is to use carbonated water instead of still while you are soaking, kneading, and straining. By the time you're done with this, most of the bubbles are gone and you're again left without the desired effect. The third way is to carbonate it after making it, which is what I do. And unless you bottle it, of course the fizz goes away quickly.

Anyway throw whatever other questions you have at me. Like I said, I'm aiming for more in-store sales due to shipping costs and that hardcore kava drinkers want to make it themselves anyway, but I was just checking to see if there was online interest. Imagine: you're at a store buying a sandwich, or you're on the go in your day and stop by a corner store, and you can just buy a refreshing, ice cold, bubbly bottle of kava? You're paying for convenience, but that's what we all do for a lot of things.

I think you may have miscommunicated with the FDA potentially.

SECG on CGMP for Dietary Supplements

This guidance document restates in plain language the legal requirements set forth in the DS CGMP rule (21 CFR part 111). The DS CGMP rule is binding and has the full force and effect of law.

www.fda.gov

Its one thing to make, say, lemonade for your local farmers market and quite another to sell a liquid dietary supplement or food that can supposedly be stored at ambient temperature.

Not impossible, but may be a but more difficult and costly than you think

 

[Aloha Kava]

I think you may have miscommunicated with the FDA potentially.

SECG on CGMP for Dietary Supplements

This guidance document restates in plain language the legal requirements set forth in the DS CGMP rule (21 CFR part 111). The DS CGMP rule is binding and has the full force and effect of law.

www.fda.gov

Its one thing to make, say, lemonade for your local farmers market and quite another to sell a liquid dietary supplement or food that can supposedly be stored at ambient temperature.

Not impossible, but may be a but more difficult and costly than you think

Could be! Like I said I spoke with the health departments in two states and the FDA office describing my plan and mode of operation, and they said it would work. Label appropriately, no snake oil claims, and commercial kitchen.

 

[kavakarma]

My aunt has shown me that soda water in Kava is not too bad. It changes the color, flavor, and mouthfeel. I will buy a pack of your carbonated Kava.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Could be! Like I said I spoke with the health departments in two states and the FDA office describing my plan and mode of operation, and they said it would work. Label appropriately, no snake oil claims, and commercial kitchen.

Interesting!
Did they know what kava was or did you just tell them it was like tea?

I'd say you might still find it challenging to actually make it shelf stable, unless you want to use preservatives.

 

[kavakarma]

Are you currently selling? Contact me, I'm ready to place an order.

I'll pay the shipping, I want to try your product.

 

[Hitch]

Interesting!
Did they know what kava was or did you just tell them it was like tea?

I'd say you might still find it challenging to actually make it shelf stable, unless you want to use preservatives.

Henry, I believe I saw you were involved with Pacific Roots Kava when I ordered some from KWK — did you make your bottled green fresh kava shelf stable by using preservatives or heat pasteurization (or neither)? Not sure how it could be made shelf stable with neither preservatives nor heat pasteurization.

 

[Hitch]

Henry, I believe I saw you were involved with Pacific Roots Kava when I ordered some from KWK — did you make your bottled green fresh kava shelf stable by using preservatives or heat pasteurization (or neither)? Not sure how it could be made shelf stable with neither preservatives nor heat pasteurization.

The carbonated kava does sound interesting but yes, question is how do you make it shelf stable amongst other things.

 

[kavakarma]

As a student of biology and chemistry, I'm going to guess it's timing. If you seal it right away, no air, no leaks, there was no bacteria to begin with. We're talking about no additives, so that means no preservatives. Heat acts funny when you bottle it up. I bet it's done cold, and if sealed right away, has no chance or opportunity to grow bacteria until air is let in.