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"Intoxicating" pepper, possible stigma

Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
Has there been any thread yet talking about whether or not intoxicating pepper is an "offensive" name for kava? In other words, what with the stigma attached to the word intoxication or intoxicating or whatever, do you think the same stigma applies to Kava? If you were to recommend Kava to someone who staunchly rejects anything that implies that it is intoxicating, can you safely recommend them Kava? I already know that my answer is yes. I just want to know if there's already a thread on this so I can show a friend that Kava's alright without having to rely on my word alone.
 

Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
The name ("piper methysticum") was invented by James Cook's botanist over 200 years ago. Nobody actually uses the English translation in ordinary speech.
Yeah I know but it's on the wiki page and I told him to read the wiki page and he mentioned the fact that it said "Intoxicating pepper". It's not so much that he's morally opposed, but that he's had a weird reaction to a prescription of codeine he got when he got a concussion, he got irritable and sleepy and foggy and heavily depressed. So, he's weary of anything mind altering now as it was a very aversive experience.
 

Dr.Krunk

Certified Quack
Yeah I know but it's on the wiki page and I told him to read the wiki page and he mentioned the fact that it said "Intoxicating pepper". It's not so much that he's morally opposed, but that he's had a weird reaction to a prescription of codeine he got when he got a concussion, he got irritable and sleepy and foggy and heavily depressed. So, he's weary of anything mind altering now as it was a very aversive experience.
Well all I can say is codeine is some serious stuff. I've only had it through prescribed use for a terrible cough I had when I was younger. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sleeping issues weren't derived from the concussion itself but what do I know. I think we both know that Kava and Codeine are completely incomparable but like @Henry said it is a psychoactive substance although it is very gentle.

I'm assuming he doesn't consume alcohol if he's worried of Kava. I think the alcohol comparison doesn't do Kava much justice but it's difficult to explain the feeling.

I'd try to explain Kava and it's vast variety of effects. Show the medicinal potential and some of the many testimonies on this site of others ridding addictions due to Kava. Possibly see if he would have a mild kava session with you over the course of 1-4 hours. Just drink one shell and wait 20 minutes to see any effects.
 

dr phalloid

Kava Enthusiast
well it sounds like your friend could be allergic to codeine as my sister had simaliar problems when she was given it,best they avoid all opiates.as for kava I personally think intoxicating pepper is spot on,i certainly feel its intoxicating effects if I drink a few shells,i didant notice it but a friend said I was slurring my words after a session.but its a mild intoxication or positive intoxication I personally enjoy it.as dr krunk said theres only one way for your friend to find out and that's have a mild session,but truly codeine+opiates are totally different to kava.
 

Kravatomill

Kava Curious
idk about you guys but after 5-6 shells within an hour I feel pretty darn intoxicated, albeit mostlly in regards to my body (wouldn't recomend driving etc...)
It usually clears up after half an hour to an hour and then only the anxiolytic effects linger for a 24-36 hours or so. If we mean intoxicating as in losing control of ones behavior then kava is not guilty. But when it comes to inhibit motor skills it surely is.
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
idk about you guys but after 5-6 shells within an hour I feel pretty darn intoxicated, albeit mostlly in regards to my body (wouldn't recomend driving etc...)
It usually clears up after half an hour to an hour and then only the anxiolytic effects linger for a 24-36 hours or so. If we mean intoxicating as in losing control of ones behavior then kava is not guilty. But when it comes to inhibit motor skills it surely is.
It makes me more rational and make better decisions than when not drinking kava. It's an odd kind of intoxication if that's what it is.
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Folks, let's call a spade a spade and a club a puppyfoot. If kava wasn't intoxicating then we wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. But I guess we should keep it our little secret. Let's face it, it's a hell of a lot better than the other intoxicating substances we could be ingesting. ::chugger::
For it's anti-inflammatory effects, I would still drink kava even if there were no other effects, and I would still think it worth its weight in gold. But yes, feeling good is one heck of an icing on the cupcake. But a lot of the feeling good I get is from the generalized systemic health benefits of kava. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate.

I still say I'm in the midst of a project, and when kava tells me to cut down I will. I don't imagine ever not drinking kava, but I could see one day getting down to one or two shells a day, and only more on weekends or whatever. Kava will let me know, I am fairly confident.

Till then, of course, it's full speed ahead and everything is working out great.
 

lonnyzone

Kava Enthusiast
I personally refuse to give in to the notion that something is inherently bad just because you can get high on it. If somebody who's averse to the sorts of things that people typically consider drugs is asking me about Kava, I'm not gonna be sneaky about the fact that it incurs a discernable temporary effect on your neurochemistry and, consequently "gets you high" as it were. If you wanna be sober one hundred percent of the time, then you best take extra small doses of Kava or avoid it altogether.
I really, really feel like the idea that Kava "isn't a drug" or "doesn't get you high" does basically nothing but perpetuate the notion that drugs are inherently bad (because it's typically put out there as a reason to choose Kava over some other substance), and that's a notion that's not only downright wrong but can have very serious consequences when widely accepted (see: the war on drugs).
 

lonnyzone

Kava Enthusiast
Folks, let's call a spade a spade and a club a puppyfoot. If kava wasn't intoxicating then we wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. But I guess we should keep it our little secret. Let's face it, it's a hell of a lot better than the other intoxicating substances we could be ingesting. ::chugger::
Hey man, depends on what you mean by better. It's definitely one of the hardest ones out there to screw up for yourself, that's for sure.
 

Pounigirl

Kava Enthusiast
I personally refuse to give in to the notion that something is inherently bad just because you can get high on it. If somebody who's averse to the sorts of things that people typically consider drugs is asking me about Kava, I'm not gonna be sneaky about the fact that it incurs a discernable temporary effect on your neurochemistry and, consequently "gets you high" as it were. If you wanna be sober one hundred percent of the time, then you best take extra small doses of Kava or avoid it altogether.
I really, really feel like the idea that Kava "isn't a drug" or "doesn't get you high" does basically nothing but perpetuate the notion that drugs are inherently bad (because it's typically put out there as a reason to choose Kava over some other substance), and that's a notion that's not only downright wrong but can have very serious consequences when widely accepted (see: the war on drugs).
I'm not debating your position as I agree with a lot of what you said, but am posting merely to say that maybe the skittishness surrounding the classification of kava as "drug like" or something that can "get you high" is precisely because we want it to stay legal for our consumption. It's precisely because the gov does ban substances that I get concerned. If word gets out about it maybe the FDA decides to be the Kava nazi and say, "No more kava for you!" You know what I mean? I know for myself it's something that I'm happy to share with friends and family and I do tell them honestly about the effects of it, but I would be wary of broadcasting it's properties to the world for fear of a wide spread ban on it. I just feel the need to keep it on the down low in order to protect its legal status. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they're worth. :)
 

yiki

Kava Enthusiast
I think "Rauschpfeffer" is not all too uncommon in germany ... itr would roughly translate to intoxicating pepper. While it certainly is true since kava IS intoxicating, its an odd name. You wouldn't call beer "intoxicating fermented hops drink".
 

lonnyzone

Kava Enthusiast
I'm not debating your position as I agree with a lot of what you said, but am posting merely to say that maybe the skittishness surrounding the classification of kava as "drug like" or something that can "get you high" is precisely because we want it to stay legal for our consumption. It's precisely because the gov does ban substances that I get concerned. If word gets out about it maybe the FDA decides to be the Kava nazi and say, "No more kava for you!" You know what I mean? I know for myself it's something that I'm happy to share with friends and family and I do tell them honestly about the effects of it, but I would be wary of broadcasting it's properties to the world for fear of a wide spread ban on it. I just feel the need to keep it on the down low in order to protect its legal status. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they're worth. :)
I get what you mean. The US government would definitely start thinking about banning Kava if it had more of a public reputation as a drug because that's basically their trigger. I just hate the fact that we can't be publicly honest about the fact that it, too, is a psychoactive substance, and just let it be an example of one where people are generally really safe and sustainable in their use because it's legal and there's an open and honest community surrounding it where we can ask questions and discuss it without fear of punishment. Not being able to point out to them that we're living examples against their idea that if it's a drug then it's gotta be banned is frustrating. ::squeakyclean::
 

Squanch72

Kava Vendor
I found Kava through a friend who mentioned the Yogi Tea when I was ready to ask my neurologist to try out Xanax for anxiety. So I got the benefits of sleeping better and reducing stress without a kruzz at first. So even if kava only did those things I would still drink it. But it sure was nice when I got my hands on my first medium grind, Kava By Rex Vanuatu3 and got krunk. Was a great trip down memory lane and is definitely a nice perk. I still mostly just do one or two kava candies, two lightly filled aluballs a day, for three or four washes, or a combination of candy and medium grind. Like Krunky mentioned, I love how very little Kava you actually need to sleep well and keep anxiety at bay.
And totally with you on the Drug War shit, kindly keep your hands off of my right to explore my own consciousness, I think there are plenty other plant healers that should be legal
 
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Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
Well all I can say is codeine is some serious stuff. I've only had it through prescribed use for a terrible cough I had when I was younger. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sleeping issues weren't derived from the concussion itself but what do I know. I think we both know that Kava and Codeine are completely incomparable but like @Henry said it is a psychoactive substance although it is very gentle.

I'm assuming he doesn't consume alcohol if he's worried of Kava. I think the alcohol comparison doesn't do Kava much justice but it's difficult to explain the feeling.

I'd try to explain Kava and it's vast variety of effects. Show the medicinal potential and some of the many testimonies on this site of others ridding addictions due to Kava. Possibly see if he would have a mild kava session with you over the course of 1-4 hours. Just drink one shell and wait 20 minutes to see any effects.
Yeah, I definitely feel like it would be great if he came over for a kava session and then that's just basically it. He's like a really good Christian so naturally there's a little too much suspicion of psychoactive substances that may or may not be well deserved. I mean, if one session of Kava really made you crazy for it and you can't stop drinking it, and it's not of your own volition at all maybe the suspicion would be justified :p
But I don't think so so it's hard to explain it like it isn't bad, and like I'm not trying to be a drug dealer or something. I mean, I guess the best way to explain would be to use his example with codeine, if you don't like a drug sometimes you can "just say no", "even though it's a drug".
 
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Donwanagan

Kava Curious
Has there been any thread yet talking about whether or not intoxicating pepper is an "offensive" name for kava? In other words, what with the stigma attached to the word intoxication or intoxicating or whatever, do you think the same stigma applies to Kava?
Honestly, yes. That is the sorry state of affairs today in America but times are changing. Generally, when the average thoughtless person hears something can "get you high" it produces an automatic response. This is of course psychological, due to the tv, movies, school or whatever experiences growing up that induce that mindset. But with recent years, marijuana has been legalized in several states. Alot of myths are being broken, new things learned. Some people who i knew to be anti marijuana have actually changed their stances. Times are changing, but currently yes, most people will think inherent negativity when they hear anything can get you "high".
But what's funny is somehow alcohol remains legal. Causing driving accidents and deaths. Alcoholism, which leads to a threshold of issues in one's life, eventually death possibly. And btw, i have been a home brewer for a number of years until just a few months ago.. ( don't want to mix drinking alcohol with kava, thus i haven't been brewing any beer ). But anyways, im not anti alcohol, but i realize it is what it is.
If you were to recommend Kava to someone who staunchly rejects anything that implies that it is intoxicating, can you safely recommend them Kava?
I recommended it to a good friend and my wording was that it was 'the opposite of coffee '. Not sure how accurate that is but it my opinion. Coffee is notseen by most as a 'drug '. Yet, it is pharmacologically ( is that a word? ). It effects the nervous system as a stimulant. Cocaine is a stimulant. Most average Joes will see coffee in a much more benign and friendly light than cocaine. How would you describe coffee to someone who never tried it, without making it seem like cocaine? What if that person was averse to mind altering things, would you tell them to avoid coffee?? Lol im serious, because to me kava os just coffee on the other end of the spectrum. But otherwise i feel the comparison also makes the conversation tangible to both the uninitiated in kava, as well as those who would avoid anything that alters the mind.

There's allot of cool thoughts and responses in this thread. Again, with my coffee example, what if we all were the few who discovered and drank coffee and this were coffee forums. Would we hide and feel like we are doing something bad? Or would we say "this is a pretty cool bean, i hope more people find out about it and science studies it more ".

There are posts here and there where kava drinkers refer to "doses" of kava. That terminology, to me, makes no sense. I drink alot of green tea, i dont refer to a cup of green tea as a dose. When i take Advil, i consider 200mg a standard dose. Thats just me though, i accept that other people have other ways of talking, other ways of experiencing kava, definitely not trying to be negative, just pointing out an observation and personal feeling about it.

Otherwise, again, there's alot of cool thoughts in this thread i hope ive added a few too without reiterating or repeating much of what's already been said.
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Honestly, yes. That is the sorry state of affairs today in America but times are changing. Generally, when the average thoughtless person hears something can "get you high" it produces an automatic response. This is of course psychological, due to the tv, movies, school or whatever experiences growing up that induce that mindset. But with recent years, marijuana has been legalized in several states. Alot of myths are being broken, new things learned. Some people who i knew to be anti marijuana have actually changed their stances. Times are changing, but currently yes, most people will think inherent negativity when they hear anything can get you "high".
But what's funny is somehow alcohol remains legal. Causing driving accidents and deaths. Alcoholism, which leads to a threshold of issues in one's life, eventually death possibly. And btw, i have been a home brewer for a number of years until just a few months ago.. ( don't want to mix drinking alcohol with kava, thus i haven't been brewing any beer ). But anyways, im not anti alcohol, but i realize it is what it is.

I recommended it to a good friend and my wording was that it was 'the opposite of coffee '. Not sure how accurate that is but it my opinion. Coffee is notseen by most as a 'drug '. Yet, it is pharmacologically ( is that a word? ). It effects the nervous system as a stimulant. Cocaine is a stimulant. Most average Joes will see coffee in a much more benign and friendly light than cocaine. How would you describe coffee to someone who never tried it, without making it seem like cocaine? What if that person was averse to mind altering things, would you tell them to avoid coffee?? Lol im serious, because to me kava os just coffee on the other end of the spectrum. But otherwise i feel the comparison also makes the conversation tangible to both the uninitiated in kava, as well as those who would avoid anything that alters the mind.

There's allot of cool thoughts and responses in this thread. Again, with my coffee example, what if we all were the few who discovered and drank coffee and this were coffee forums. Would we hide and feel like we are doing something bad? Or would we say "this is a pretty cool bean, i hope more people find out about it and science studies it more ".

There are posts here and there where kava drinkers refer to "doses" of kava. That terminology, to me, makes no sense. I drink alot of green tea, i dont refer to a cup of green tea as a dose. When i take Advil, i consider 200mg a standard dose. Thats just me though, i accept that other people have other ways of talking, other ways of experiencing kava, definitely not trying to be negative, just pointing out an observation and personal feeling about it.

Otherwise, again, there's alot of cool thoughts in this thread i hope ive added a few too without reiterating or repeating much of what's already been said.
If it can cause vertigo and double vision, or prevent anxiety or work as an anti-inflammatory, it's essential to speak of dosage, IMO.
 
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