Is J. Maarten Troost Allergic to Kava or Full of Shit?

[Kojo Douglas]

In "Getting Stoned With Savages," Troost paints a picture of Kava that seems quite unrealistic. I have thrown back literally two dozen shells of strong Kava in one session and never experienced a two-day coma where people had to carry me home. I've never held a shell of Kava in my hands and dropped it on the ground because I was so unbelievably (direct meaning intended) lifted. Every time I go back to that book to reread the nakamal encounter in Vanuatu, I become more and more puzzled about what Troost is really up to. Not much, methinks.

We can thank Troost for introducing many a reader to the world of kavalactones. But perhaps we can also wonder whether he actually really liked - or even tried - Kava.

 

[Deleted User01]

Hmmm, good point, I need to get that book. I guess this begs the question, has anyone here ever been so wasted on Kava that they needed to be carried home? He may be exaggerating like many writers do. But Kavasseur, 2 dozen shells Dude? Really? I think 4 or 5 is the most I have ever done because I reach a point of diminishing returns. Maybe the problem is that you are a heavyweight and maybe Troost is a liteweight (like me).

What is your record for the number of shells of Koniak? Maybe Koniak would put you a tad closer to Troost's experience. lol.

 

[infraredz]

I haven't read it either (honestly because the title has always been off-putting). However, from your short description of his experience, I can say that it sounds possible, but not plausible. I once (accidentally) used double my normal amount of kava (it was Stone at the time) and after about 15min of chugging the entire bowl, I had double vision, terrible coordination, impaired motor functioning- the whole bit. Now, the way they serve kava at nakamals (being in small shells and thus allowing more "titration" of the dose) seems to prevent an experience like what you described. Unless he drank all those shells in incredibly quick succession, one would think he would feel the powerful effects and stop or be stopped by the kava, therefore never getting to the point of needing to be carried home.

It sounds like I'd have to read it to get a better impression. It sounds like maybe he was using a bit of hyperbole to sell more books perhaps?

 

[Deleted User01]

Ah yes, double vision. After too much wine or too much Kava, I always know I had too much when I try to watch TV and I'm seeing double. That seems to be one of the few reliable indicators that I should have stopped imbiding earlier. Talking about titration of the dose, I encourage Newbies to prorate their dose and take a shell every 15-30 minutes. It's the sensible thing to do and I think it actually makes the effects better and more long lasting.

 

[infraredz]

Yeah, it's definitely a different experience when I drink kava at the (somewhat) local kava bar because I like to take it slow and have a shell around every 10min or so. Granted, they make their kava pretty weak so I have to factor that in as well but I still choose to drink it by the shell as opposes to getting "boosts" and/or adding instant kava to it to try to make it more potent. There is something remarkably subtle and enjoyable about the effects when drank over a longer period of time.

That being said, I still prefer to chug down my bowl of kava when I'm at home because I don't have the same encouraging atmosphere, people, etc which fosters the other type of experience IMO.

 

[infraredz]

Granted, I have to drink what they call "double" shells during happy hour (where you get two shells for one) because it's 5.50 for a double (during happy hour, normally 11.00) and I would estimate that a double contains only 8-12oz.

I would visit that place much more often if they didn't make it so damn expensive (and if they made their kava stronger). Once, drinking "single" shells, I drank 8 and didn't feel the same level of effects that I do from 8tbsps (my normal amount) of any given "normal" potency kava. That was a 45 dollar experience that I would love to take back and definitely what drove me to only going during happy hour.

 

[HeadHodge]

..... I encourage Newbies to prorate their dose and take a shell every 15-30 minutes. It's the sensible thing to do and I think it actually makes the effects better and more long lasting.

That's sounds like sensible advice. I can't wait for the day I figure which Kava will be my goto strain, nail down the proper prep method, and get the shell timing correct. I think when I meet that objective, I might be able to feel comfortable calling myself a properly experienced Kava drinker.

 

[HeadHodge]

...That was a 45 dollar experience that I would love to take back ...

Wow $45.

@infraredz Does that mean if we do manage to get together for a few shells, you're buying?? Right??

 

[infraredz]

Well, we would have to go at happy hour of course.

They have recently increased the strength of their kava significantly, although still too weak IMO. I drank some kava with the owner/manager and he told me that they were focussing more effort on trialling different kavas (one day they even had Solomon Island kava that was actually legit) and it sounded like he was kind of revamping the kava aspect of the place. They are half kava bar and half yoga studio although Yoga isn't going on all the time. I'm not quite sure which was their focus before, but I know that as far as their kava is concerned, it sounds like they are definitely stepping it up so it won't take that many shells anymore.

I think @krunkedout and @shakas also live somewhat nearby so maybe we could make a little meet-up happen. That would be fun

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Oh yeah, I have definitely thrown back 20 or 25 shells in one session. I have been thoroughly and exceptionally krunked before. But that's my point: Kava isn't so demobilizing that someone needs to carry you home or that you literally drop your shell. Actually, you are more likely to become incredibly sick and start throwing up before you enter some kind of unconscious state. There used to be a vendor called "PNG Kava" that a guy in Papua New Guinea started. His business never got off the ground and he only sold in bulk. The kava looked and tasted like grass cuttings. I pounded about 20 shells with a friend and we both ended up puking our brains out with only the slightest actual kava buzz. Of course, that's all off topic...

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

In "Getting Stoned With Savages," Troost paints a picture of Kava that seems quite unrealistic. I have thrown back literally two dozen shells of strong Kava in one session and never experienced a two-day coma where people had to carry me home. I've never held a shell of Kava in my hands and dropped it on the ground because I was so unbelievably (direct meaning intended) lifted. Every time I go back to that book to reread the nakamal encounter in Vanuatu, I become more and more puzzled about what Troost is really up to. Not much, methinks.

We can thank Troost for introducing many a reader to the world of kavalactones. But perhaps we can also wonder whether he actually really liked - or even tried - Kava.

I also haven't read the entirety of his account. But, as I try to think of all the possibilities, I agree that it could be due to an allergy or simply bullshit to make his story sound more fantastic. Other possibilities:
-he could be on a medication when he did it, that caused the reaction.
-he could have an underlaying health problem that doesn't mix well with kava.
-he could be a natural lightweight bombarding his system with strong kava.
-I've read somewhere that cocky sailors (in the past) would be given a special extremely potent grog (some wild variety maybe?), deliberately to put them in their place. (not sure if this still happens anywhere in modern times)
-I found a study once that said some people simply aren't born capable of processing kava the same way as others. Similar to the way that almost all asians are lactose intolerant, but people of european decent are rarely lactose intolerant(relatively). The same goes for processing alcohol, asians are much more likely than europeans to not process it correctly and suffer complications from drinking it. There are little evolutionary genetic quirks like this around the world, between cultures. Perhaps this man's lack of pacific island genetics has left him as one of the "kava-intolerant". ...sucks for him.

In all honesty, I question the difficulty I can have with kava, at times, and wonder if it might be the same issue. If I had the blood of generations of kava drinkers in me, would the experience always be better .... ? Have my european genes made kava a bit more difficult for me to process ?

I have heard accounts of locals drinking to the point of temporary immobilization, but nothing in the way of 2 day long coma-states.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Well, from an anthropological standpoint I can't imagine how kava tolerance could ever factor into comparative evolutionary advantage. That was a anthropology nerd joke, of course.

But yes, one of your above reasons sounds probable. I like the "cocky sailor" theory.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I also just read on his wiki that he was an alcoholic, so if that's true, it might give a +1 to the concurrent 'medication' theory...possibly in addition to the cocky sailor theory

 

[HeadHodge]

I also just read on his wiki that he was an alcoholic, so if that's true, it might give a +1 to the concurrent 'medication' theory...possibly in addition to the cocky sailor theory

If he was an alcoholic, which turn caused subsequent liver issues. Do you think he could have had Kava issues from a messed up liver? Not suggesting that Kava gave him liver problems, but have had that from the boozing.

I've read somewhere that liver problems can intensify the effects of alcohol. So I was thinking that maybe he was possibly getting a more intense reaction with his Kava too.

 

[Deleted User01]

Well my Library has that book in stock so I'm gonna get it and check it out. I will be Krunked tonite so it is fitting. Kavasseur, I guess my question is this, what is the most shells of good Kava that you have ever had? What was that like? You are the father of Kava around here so we expect some good war stories. I don't want to hear about someone drinking 20 shells of bad Kava and then puking. That's like adding insult to injury. By the way, glad to see you back. When Kavasseur speaks, everyone listens. lol.

I like the liver theory alot. Someone accused my liver of not metabolizing wine the other day and said that was why I was so crazy for hours after the feast. Of course, he doesn't know that the Kava on the previous day/weeks/months may have something to do with it. And now I'm wondering .....

P.S. My liver results were normal the other day but still higher than in the past. I do binge a little on the weekend with either Single Malt Scotch, Wine or Homebrew but I don't do Kava on those days. Just some extra info for all the Kava Scientists out there.

 

[Deleted User01]

I read most of the book last night. First off, the Title is degrading to the people of Vanuatu and anyone who has read Nemo's post would agree. So we learn that he gets Krunked out of his mind on 5 shells. My guess is that he had 5 beers before he went to the Nakamal. We also learn that Fiji Kava is weak and they typically drink 20-30 shells in one sitting. Huhh? That could be expensive for "savages". Fiji is the prostitution capital of the South Seas because the government encourages immigration of prostitutes. And they come in every ethnicity and gender. And we also learn that the best Kava is at the neighborhood Nakamal where it is always a good idea to make friends with the "Savages". Oh, we also learn that the author is a "stoner". And so I'm sure he did mix alcohol with Kava (takes one to know one) and perhaps for the last time (live and learn).

I wish someone would write a book about visiting all the islands including Vanatua, Fiji, Tonga, PNG, Solomons, Tanna, Malekula and so on and review the Kava on each island. If only Kavasseur could get reassigned to the Islands, he would be the perfect one for reviewing the Kavas and writing the book. I would buy it in a heartbeat. Hey, the proceeds could go to help the people in poor nations learn how to farm and be self-sustaining. Win Win for all.

P.S. You can buy that book for 4.00 from Thriftbooks.com (includes freight). They didn't have the Pacific Elixir book.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Well, well. I think I might have to agree with you on all fronts here. I have actually read all of Troost's books, and some are definitely worth a read. "Lost on Planet China" is a rather good one, if you are willing to tolerate high amounts of cynicism. His newest book, "Headhunters at my Doorstep," is one of the worst books I have ever read. Not surprisingly, it is about him overcoming alcoholism. Troost is a poor man's Paul Theroux or Bill Bryson. He's trying to appeal to frat boys, high school stoners, and new age cynics.

As an anthropologist, I can attest that the term "savages" is indeed completely inappropriate. It is degrading and condescending; backwards and racist. Troost is a savage.

And man, if I ever got a grant to travel the south Pacific and write a book about the nakamals...? Well, I'd have done died and gone up to heaven. And yes, I would give all the proceeds to agricultural projects in Melanesia - especially kava projects.

 

[infraredz]

Is it possible that it was just hyperbole?

 

[LocalBliss]

I'm sure we all know that you can not OD with kava, ...impossible, as for Polynesian kava drinkers, there are two mixes, Social: where you party all night [like lite beer], and Ceremonial: where you drink one time [and its like a straight whiskey]. The ceremonial way is you line up the untitled men and give them each a handful of kavaroots to chew on without swallowing the juice. The chew is then collected using a leaf from the ulu tree and its given to the virgin maiden mixing the bowl. Now theres something about the saliva that activates the active ingredients because the mix is very strong. I know because I was an honored guest in Samoa and witnessed the whole experience first hand. NB, there is a strain in Samoa that is so strong the Samoans use it to catch fish: they dilute an ocean area say 400sq feet and watch the fish float to the top "drunk as skunks".
I am new to this forum and enjoy this wonderful root and the experience of sharing with you all.

 

[yepimonfire]

Well, we would have to go at happy hour of course.

They have recently increased the strength of their kava significantly, although still too weak IMO. I drank some kava with the owner/manager and he told me that they were focussing more effort on trialling different kavas (one day they even had Solomon Island kava that was actually legit) and it sounded like he was kind of revamping the kava aspect of the place. They are half kava bar and half yoga studio although Yoga isn't going on all the time. I'm not quite sure which was their focus before, but I know that as far as their kava is concerned, it sounds like they are definitely stepping it up so it won't take that many shells anymore.

I think @krunkedout and @shakas also live somewhat nearby so maybe we could make a little meet-up happen. That would be fun

I'd like to see someone do yoga after a good amount of kava. That would be funny as shit.


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