Is this mixture lethal? Please read

[Shredder]

Hey fellas. It's been a long ass time since I've commented on this forum. I hope you are all doing well! I used to post on here asking help from you guys on whether kava would help me with my panic disorder and agoraphobia... There are many times when I had to go places with people that I didn't think I'd ever be able to make happen and kava was there to help me out. I love kava. It's a beautiful thing and in grateful for it's existence.

Unfortunately I am still suffering, but recently started microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms. I have talked to many other people who have anecdotally confirmed that among taking higher macrodoses and having full trips, that they were able to near completely, if not completely wipe out their anxiety disorders, and guilt, and shame, and all of the other horrible things they've been holding onto that no doubt have fueled their and my anxiety disorders and panic attacks.


I am at the end of my 20s now. I don't wanna be on psyche meds that only have limited efficacy before ultimately making me their slave. I want to be free and I want to let go of all of the things holding me back. I want to go wherever I want to any time and move on with my life.


I am considering taking kava with a high dose of psilocin mushrooms so that the come-up isn't as brutal. I read on some other forum that since psilo and kava act on different parts of the brain that something like that should be ok. But I don't pretend to be an expert on any of this. Im just here to learn and make sure I don't hurt myself. Can anyone reading this speak at all to the thought of this combination?

 

[Michael Nielsen]

I would do this with guidance.

With a therapist who works with mushrooms.

 

[Groggy]

I am at the end of my 20s now. I don't wanna be on psyche meds that only have limited efficacy before ultimately making me their slave. I want to be free and I want to let go of all of the things holding me back. I want to go wherever I want to any time and move on with my life.

In all honesty, if you are really serious about this statement, I would consider therapy. Kava, mushrooms, weed, SSRI's, whatever the substance, are all crutches. Some to a larger extent than others. Therapy is, imo, the ultimate solution. It is not by any means easy but it will eventually lead you to total freedom. I resisted this truth for many years until it dawned on me that i spent the better part of my life looking for "fixes" when there are none. If you chose to invest time, and lots of it on addressing the reasons you have anxiety and or panic disorders (as I also had), you WILL get to a place where life gets much easier.

 

[Shredder]

In all honesty, if you are really serious about this statement, I would consider therapy. Kava, mushrooms, weed, SSRI's, whatever the substance, are all crutches. Some to a larger extent than others. Therapy is, imo, the ultimate solution. It is not by any means easy but it will eventually lead you to total freedom. I resisted this truth for many years until it dawned on me that i spent the better part of my life looking for "fixes" when there are none. If you chose to invest time, and lots of it on addressing the reasons you have anxiety and or panic disorders (as I also had), you WILL get to a place where life gets much easier.

I already tried that. I saw therapists. Went to hypnotherapists. Saw NLP practitioners. Took SSRIs. Took benzos. Tried yoga. Tried EFT technique. Tried meditation. Tried supplements.

I tried basically everything short of ketamine treatment.

I have to see if the shrooms can help me have a breakthrough. If not, then it's back to square one.

 

[Shredder]

I would do this with guidance.

With a therapist who works with mushrooms.

That's gonna be next to impossible for me since I have agoraphobia. I can't get to any therapists. I'm gonna have my girlfriend and brother be my sitters for me

 

[Michael Nielsen]

I do assume that there a therapist who does online consulting.

I dont expect mushrooms to be able to cure, but to make life able to live.. That you can go shopping, but it might stil be unpleasent.

Someting to consider is psilocybin might be regulated substance depending on where you live.

Kava aint regulated

 

[Mixnpickngrinnin]

I have used the combination and I find the two plants to 'get along' well, but I was using them recreationally. I can't really speak to the efficacy of them with a more therapeutic goal

 

[yiki]

I would consider therapy. Kava, mushrooms, weed, SSRI's, whatever the substance, are all crutches.

Actually, this might not be really true.

In contrast, psilocybin seems to increase the brain’s ability to visit a broader state space, both acutely and after psilocybin therapy in patients who are depressed, as shown here. Moreover, this ‘liberating’ action of psilocybin is paralleled by subjective reports of ‘emotional release’40,41 as well as subacute increases in behavioral optimism9, cognitive flexibility42 and psychological flexibility after taking a psychedelic drug43. Indeed, heightened emotional responsiveness may be specific to psilocybin therapy versus SSRIs26.

Increased global integration in the brain after psilocybin therapy for depression - Nature Medicine

The antidepressant response to psilocybin in individuals with treatment-resistant depression is distinct from escitalopram and depends on a global increase in brain network integration.

www.nature.com

They do something to the brain that SSRIs can't and this is corraborated by thousands of anecdotal reports. I can personally attest that there can be long lasting relief. You won't get magically cured but it can help a ton.

@Shredder

Kava and Mushrooms are no problem, but i do not like the combination personally. I would highly recommend to just go into the experience sober and trust all that happens happens for a reason. Good feelings, bad feelings, troubles etc. I also have a history of anxiety and panic disorder and would say im a very anxious person. I would have to lie if i said mushrooms do not have the potential for anxiety. But in a good supportive sorroundings, i'm sure its fine and you can go through it and come out a better person. Just important to allow it to happen and not fight it. Are your Tripsitters experienced? They might want to read https://maps.org/2010/05/05/how-to-work-with-difficult-psychedelic-experiences/ this first. But do not get into it thinking it will be difficult or terrible or anxiety ridden bc it does not have to be and i think it makes no sense to panic beforehand. Just take precautions with good sitters and do it in a good, safe environment.

Have you had psychedelics before? You seem to have a good network of people already but you can always pm me to discuss it privately.

 

[Groggy]

Actually, this might not be really true.

You're basically agreeing with me. You're saying that "might not really be true." So it could equally be true. At least that's the way it sounds.

They do something to the brain that SSRIs can't and this is corraborated by thousands of anecdotal reports. I can personally attest that there can be long lasting relief. You won't get magically cured but it can help a ton.

I am not debating the efficacy of mushrooms, I'm simply saying that the potential for overuse is there. I believe most substances we take, are under the guise that we are helping ourselves when the reality is were using said substance to avoid dealing with negative feelings. My belief is that once we address those feelings we can start to understand where the anxiety and panic response comes from. Does it mean that the feeling ceases to exist? Probably not but knowledge is power, and understanding what triggers a person or yourself is half the battle. From my own experience I can tell you that my life didn't really turn around until I started to address the things that make me anxious. We are all different and we are all dealing with different stressors in our lives. I am a strong believer that some form of therapy, whether it be CBT or even perhaps, psilocybin therapy have the most desirable outcomes. And I stress therapy because if done under medical supervision.. It could be equally beneficial.

I like magic mushrooms, occasionally and for me that might be once or twice a year, I enjoy a full-on mushroom experience. I find Psilocybin has a strong spiritual side and I've had many epiphanies while under the influence. I just don't lie to myself and say it's therapeutic or I'm doing for therapeutic uses I do it because I like the feeling. It's the same reason I smoke pot, I enjoy the feeling. I don't lie to myself and say I use it for therapeutic purposes I do it because I enjoy the feeling and it helps me forget about my daily problems, it's a nice reward at the end of the day.

To tie this whole thing together, if it's not abundantly clear by now, lol, I have a therapist and I have been doing therapy for the better part of the last 7 years. Therapy is not a magic pill, it does take time. I think a lot of people make the mistake of trying it for a few months and then proclaiming that it doesn't work for them when the reality is they didn't give themselves a chance. I also tell my therapist about all the substances I enjoy because I have nothing to hide, I do it because I like it and I believe that if they know they'll be able to help me better.

 

[Shredder]

Actually, this might not be really true.

Increased global integration in the brain after psilocybin therapy for depression - Nature Medicine

The antidepressant response to psilocybin in individuals with treatment-resistant depression is distinct from escitalopram and depends on a global increase in brain network integration.

www.nature.com

They do something to the brain that SSRIs can't and this is corraborated by thousands of anecdotal reports. I can personally attest that there can be long lasting relief. You won't get magically cured but it can help a ton.

@Shredder

Kava and Mushrooms are no problem, but i do not like the combination personally. I would highly recommend to just go into the experience sober and trust all that happens happens for a reason. Good feelings, bad feelings, troubles etc. I also have a history of anxiety and panic disorder and would say im a very anxious person. I would have to lie if i said mushrooms do not have the potential for anxiety. But in a good supportive sorroundings, i'm sure its fine and you can go through it and come out a better person. Just important to allow it to happen and not fight it. Are your Tripsitters experienced? They might want to read https://maps.org/2010/05/05/how-to-work-with-difficult-psychedelic-experiences/ this first. But do not get into it thinking it will be difficult or terrible or anxiety ridden bc it does not have to be and i think it makes no sense to panic beforehand. Just take precautions with good sitters and do it in a good, safe environment.

Have you had psychedelics before? You seem to have a good network of people already but you can always pm me to discuss it privately.

Hey dude I just got here reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment on my post. I'd love to talk to you more about psychedelics if you don't mind. Yes one of my trips that is, my girlfriend is very experienced and psychedelics and she knows a lot about that kind of stuff so I think she's going to be a good tripsitter. Like you said I'm not looking to be 100% cured I don't know if that's even possible but I just feel like I have very traumas that need to be reconciled and dealt with before I can actually move on to the point where the thing that's triggering my anxiety and my panic disorder will dissipate, leading me to move on with my life and actually enjoy the rest of my life and feel like life is worth living.

 

[Shredder]

You're basically agreeing with me. You're saying that "might not really be true." So it could equally be true. At least that's the way it sounds.


I am not debating the efficacy of mushrooms, I'm simply saying that the potential for overuse is there. I believe most substances we take, are under the guise that we are helping ourselves when the reality is were using said substance to avoid dealing with negative feelings. My belief is that once we address those feelings we can start to understand where the anxiety and panic response comes from. Does it mean that the feeling ceases to exist? Probably not but knowledge is power, and understanding what triggers a person or yourself is half the battle. From my own experience I can tell you that my life didn't really turn around until I started to address the things that make me anxious. We are all different and we are all dealing with different stressors in our lives. I am a strong believer that some form of therapy, whether it be CBT or even perhaps, psilocybin therapy have the most desirable outcomes. And I stress therapy because if done under medical supervision.. It could be equally beneficial.

I like magic mushrooms, occasionally and for me that might be once or twice a year, I enjoy a full-on mushroom experience. I find Psilocybin has a strong spiritual side and I've had many epiphanies while under the influence. I just don't lie to myself and say it's therapeutic or I'm doing for therapeutic uses I do it because I like the feeling. It's the same reason I smoke pot, I enjoy the feeling. I don't lie to myself and say I use it for therapeutic purposes I do it because I enjoy the feeling and it helps me forget about my daily problems, it's a nice reward at the end of the day.

To tie this whole thing together, if it's not abundantly clear by now, lol, I have a therapist and I have been doing therapy for the better part of the last 7 years. Therapy is not a magic pill, it does take time. I think a lot of people make the mistake of trying it for a few months and then proclaiming that it doesn't work for them when the reality is they didn't give themselves a chance. I also tell my therapist about all the substances I enjoy because I have nothing to hide, I do it because I like it and I believe that if they know they'll be able to help me better.

I think you're making a lot of great points here. Therapy is definitely important, however you go about doing that. For me nothing else has worked, and as a young adult now I'm noticing that I have unresolved issues that I may not even be fully aware of. In that sense, I hope that psilocybin mushrooms really are therapeutic for me if only in that they show me the way as far as confronting the things I need to confront, so that long term, my anxiety and more importantly the root of that anxiety, can be vanquished.

 

[yiki]

You're basically agreeing with me. You're saying that "might not really be true." So it could equally be true. At least that's the way it sounds.

Because further studies need to solidify the evidence. There is evidence that they do more substantial change than SSRIs though, which is important to acknowledge in my opinion.

I just don't lie to myself and say it's therapeutic or I'm doing for therapeutic uses I do it because I like the feeling.

I often don't like the feeling, especially the onset is often not comfortable at all... but the outcome ist good..

when the reality is were using said substance to avoid dealing with negative feelings. My belief is that once we address those feelings we can start to understand where the anxiety and panic response comes from.

But exactly this can happen with mushrooms.....

I don't necessarly take them for therapeutic reasons, but they still can be therapeutic. It is not a silver bullet, that we can agree on. That you are honest to yourself is great!

Yes one of my trips that is, my girlfriend is very experienced and psychedelics and she knows a lot about that kind of stuff

That is absolutely fantastic and also invaluable. If there is a certain aspect you are unsure about or need a second opinion on, do pm. Maybe some issues might arise from the experience where your gf can't help you with because of the contents. Who knows...it's important to know there are people to turn to, to feel save in this journey out in the ocean of mind. Whatever that might be...

 

[Orz[EST]]

I'd have kava lster if need be...

 

[Shredder]

Because further studies need to solidify the evidence. There is evidence that they do more substantial change than SSRIs though, which is important to acknowledge in my opinion.



I often don't like the feeling, especially the onset is often not comfortable at all... but the outcome ist good..



But exactly this can happen with mushrooms.....

I don't necessarly take them for therapeutic reasons, but they still can be therapeutic. It is not a silver bullet, that we can agree on. That you are honest to yourself is great!



That is absolutely fantastic and also invaluable. If there is a certain aspect you are unsure about or need a second opinion on, do pm. Maybe some issues might arise from the experience where your gf can't help you with because of the contents. Who knows...it's important to know there are people to turn to, to feel save in this journey out in the ocean of mind. Whatever that might be...

Thanks dude! Love the sopranos picture!
Yea I might message you. I'd love to get some more perspective on this before I dive in.

 

[Mixnpickngrinnin]

I'd have kava lster if need be...

this is how I have used it, and I enjoy it. On the "come down" i find Kava a nice way to transition into a more peaceful subdued state. I would not alter the true mushroom experience itself with anything especially alcohol or weed as I find those can really take over and change the direction of the journey.

 

[kavakarma]

Kava's fine with psilocybe - they intensify thirst, yawning, and time stretching in my two experiences. Prepare to get totally kavafied and recover three times in an hour then drink liters of water if you go for it.

 

[ThePiper]

If you’re going to do this, probably best to wait until you feel like you need to use kava and don’t preload. Try some breathing exercises to calm your anxiety in the mean time. Don’t humor any thoughts that you will be like this forever or that you are in danger.if you are to use any medicine at all in your life, you need to trust it and treat it as a healing process that is on your side in the big picture. That might sound dumb but it is essential. People above have given reasons why it’s best to wait until you have acclimated to drink kava.

 

[Shredder]

If you’re going to do this, probably best to wait until you feel like you need to use kava and don’t preload. Try some breathing exercises to calm your anxiety in the mean time. Don’t humor any thoughts that you will be like this forever or that you are in danger.if you are to use any medicine at all in your life, you need to trust it and treat it as a healing process that is on your side in the big picture. That might sound dumb but it is essential. People above have given reasons why it’s best to wait until you have acclimated to drink kava.

Thanks for the advice. I'll have sitters to guide me. I think I'll be ok.

 

[Shredder]

Kava's fine with psilocybe - they intensify thirst, yawning, and time stretching in my two experiences. Prepare to get totally kavafied and recover three times in an hour then drink liters of water if you go for it.

Yea I imagine the combination would massively dehydrate me.

 

[Shredder]

this is how I have used it, and I enjoy it. On the "come down" i find Kava a nice way to transition into a more peaceful subdued state. I would not alter the true mushroom experience itself with anything especially alcohol or weed as I find those can really take over and change the direction of the journey.

I'll try to do it without first taking kava.