Vendor News K@ on the menu now

[TheKavaSociety]

I think ya'll are WAY overexaggerating the effects of K@. I take it for back pain in small doses and have never once had withdrawals while taking a break. I know some do, but i sure don't. Every person I know that takes K@ acts the exact same way as when they aren't and we don't get "high" the same way as we do even from kava. I get far more "buzzed" from kava than i ever have from K@ in years of taking it.

Great that you find it to be medicinally useful and don't get withdrawals! I am sure some people can manage it well, just like many people can manage prescription meds and/or other substances. E.g. I know lots of people who often drink alcohol, but function perfectly well and do not seem to be addicted. Still, it's pretty obvious that booze (or K@) do have a potential for causing physical dependence.
Anyway, we are not talking about using K@ in a medical context, but rather about promoting and serving it in a "bar", alongside kava.

 

[ThePiper]

I think ya'll are WAY overexaggerating the effects of K@. I take it for back pain in small doses and have never once had withdrawals while taking a break. I know some do, but i sure don't. Every person I know that takes K@ acts the exact same way as when they aren't and we don't get "high" the same way as we do even from kava. I get far more "buzzed" from kava than i ever have from K@ in years of taking it.

I think your perspective is pretty reasonable, and I agree with you for the most part, including the fact that kava can be more intoxicating than K@. However K@ is a medicinal primarily, and kava is primarily social. They really have no business being marketed side by side.

 

[Jalak]

K@ has no place in a recreational setting. Especially in Oregon where we have one of the worst opiate/opioid problems in the country. We prescribe more pills here than any other state, and heroin is a huge problem as well. K@ does have legitimate uses for mild pain management and for transitioning off of oxy/heroin/methadone etc., But don't pretend it's a healthy addiction. No addiction is healthy mentally, and adding in a physical addiction component makes it worse.

 

[The Kap'n]

K@ has no place in a recreational setting. Especially in Oregon where we have one of the worst opiate/opioid problems in the country. We prescribe more pills here than any other state, and heroin is a huge problem as well. K@ does have legitimate uses for mild pain management and for transitioning off of oxy/heroin/methadone etc., But don't pretend it's a healthy addiction. No addiction is healthy mentally, and adding in a physical addiction component makes it worse.

Thank you.

It's almost too easy to forget the palpable and encompassing destruction that any type of addiction can cause you emotionally and mentally. Quitting an addictive drug is a lot like climbing a mountain range. The small mountain in front is actually just quitting the drug. The K2 or Everest is dealing with the aftermath of it all in your daily life and in your head.

 

[tonythefiddler]

Thank you.

It's almost too easy to forget the palpable and encompassing destruction that any type of addiction can cause you emotionally and mentally. Quitting an addictive drug is a lot like climbing a mountain range. The small mountain in front is actually just quitting the drug. The K2 or Everest is dealing with the aftermath of it all in your daily life and in your head.

I can imagine based on a few experiences that K2 would be the worst substance to get addicted to

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

The best zouk song of all is "Zouk la se sel medikaman nou ni" by Kassav, "Zouk is the only medicine we need." I feel that way about kava. It renders all other recreational drugs including especially alcohol totally obsolete. It renders everything else at best vaguely disgusting but more usually just poison. IMO. I'm kind of biased, maybe. But I'm also right.

 

[yiki]

For the sake of kava, keep the K@ away. I do think its got its place but not anywhere near kava. Boycott.

 

[Ricardo Piquant]

I called Judd's kava bar last night and spoke to "Chris". He said they were offering K@ in-house only, as a "tea or infusion". He said they had been offering it for about three weeks, and that it was "relaxing and similar to kava", that it "bonded to opiate receptors but is not an opiate", and "could cause withdrawal problems". He admitted he knew very little about the product, and seemed to view it as just another menu item. I expect it will not take long before this kava bar is transformed into something entirely different, whether Judd realizes this or not.

How this should affect our view of BKH may be controversial, but I can at least give my opinions...

Kava is marketed in the US largely in the same context that it is used in the South Pacific - a relaxing social drink with potentially medicinal benefits. This marketing and promotion model is completely supportable both legally and scientifically.

K@ is marketed in the US through two venues. The first is the "botanicals" approach, where it is sold either separately or alongside similar products, and promoted for a wide spectrum of use ranging from traditional medical to "legal high". This is a variably supportable position, and closely mirrors the traditional Oriental use of the substance, i.e. a medicine with potential for abuse.

The second venue of K@ is the most unsettling and dangerous for us. This is where the kava marketing model is literally hijacked and applied to K@. This "virtue by association" model is totally illegitimate, and damages the reputation and the defensible position of both substances. Kava is a South Pacific social drink; K@ is an Oriental medicine.

Debating the usefulness of K@ is an interesting topic, but is has absolutely no bearing on the situation at hand. Is anyone honestly proposing that since K@ is useful and kava is useful, they should both be offered through the same venue and in the same light? This is clearly ridiculous, yet this is how conversations often digress. The real issue is those who usurp the reputation and tradition of kava and use these as a marketing tool for an utterly unrelated and addictive substance, which I personally find reprehensible. There are no "K@ nakamals"; this is a USA phenomenon instigated by merchants who are at best ill-informed and at worst totally deceptive.

Garry

Nakamal at home's bar in boca also sells K@... and a lot of it.
I see bkh has some new tongan kava (I love tongans) bUT I can't purchase from them on principle, due to this and other issues ive read (such as judds prior assault on the acetone test and his absence from this thread) Oh well.

 

[Bula Kava House]

@Ricardo Piquant You totally have the right to choose where you buy your kava. For the record though, I have always claimed the acetone test is a valuable tool for analysis. I use it myself. I simply know, as do most kava experts, that it has its limits and isn't infallible.

I have commented in depth on the K@ subject in the other thread as well. We do sell on average about 3 cups of tea daily to responsible adults, along with a couple hundred shells of some of the strongest, freshest, and finest kava available.

 

[Groggy]

For the sake of kava, keep the K@ away. I do think its got its place but not anywhere near kava. Boycott.

Boycott? I suppose to each their own, I don't agree with K@ in kava bars but that doesn't change the quality of BKH's root in any way whatsoever.

 

[yiki]

Boycott? I suppose to each their own, I don't agree with K@ in kava bars but that doesn't change the quality of BKH's root in any way whatsoever.

It does not, but i do believe there is a high risk of "guilt by association". It is undeniable that K@ is much shadier than kava and it can drag kava down.

 

[Groggy]

Well @Henry I wouldn't compare giving K@ out to college students for free and selling it at a kava bar the same thing, but as I said we are all entitled to our opinions.

 

[ThePiper]

The best zouk song of all is "Zouk la se sel medikaman nou ni" by Kassav, "Zouk is the only medicine we need." I feel that way about kava. It renders all other recreational drugs including especially alcohol totally obsolete. It renders everything else at best vaguely disgusting but more usually just poison. IMO. I'm kind of biased, maybe. But I'm also right.

Maybe that discussion is off topic but that's a rather ignorant view to hold. What if there was a group of people somewhere that use a plant that has even fewer side effects than kava and works even better? Should it be dismissed immediately because of some arrogance that there can't be something better than what you've already found? Also one size does not fit all. Kava may be all YOU need, but I can think of some people with chronic pain and depression that do not get all they need from kava. And then there are those that simply get zero effect from kava or can't take kava due to a medical condition

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

You're right. I'm ignorant and kava isn't good, it just feels that way. Although I was just speaking in reference to recreational drugs. Obviously kava will not replace a ventolin inhaler or insulin injections, or a zillion other things.

 

[ThePiper]

I was thinking of K@ in this case or medical marijuana for example. Gifts from the Earth that people benefit from just as much as you do kava. I didn't mean to insult you by saying that was ignorant, I was just trying to get you to consider that you may have been self limiting in your perspective in that post. I hope no offense was taken

It's not just you either, there are many here who want to have their cake and eat it too, saying kava is some kind of elite herb that puts all others to shame. Our culture is largely against botanicals so the easiest way for someone to rationalize how kava could possibly be healthy and feel good at the same time is to say it's superior to all those botanicals that have been subjected to the reefer madness delusion. Im not saying kava isn't exceptionally safe and beneficial, because it certainly is. What I am saying is that the above view is kind of the easy way out without having to do a lot of philosophical, ethical, and scientific analysis. And yes I know it's all about the politics too. But we aren't polititians, we are individuals.

PS I hate the idea of selling K@ tea in a kava bar.