Kava and psychiatric meds (specifically Abilify)

[Melissa]

I love kava and have used it to varying degrees over the last two years, despite being on Cymbalta, wth only occasional breaks and typically only mild dermo. For me, the mix was not problematic, and the benefits outweighed any mild dermo.

All this changed pretty dramatically recently when I went through a really hard time and my psychiatrist needed to augment my antidepressant with Abilify. My depression lifted, but I still wanted to take moderate amounts of kava for anxiety, in part to avoid benzos. Suddenly, though, I was getting really BAD dermo (looked like exfoliative dermatitis all over) even with the highest quality instant kava. I don't think it's the kava, but rather something about the mix, because I never experienced dermo like this before. I tried every lotion I could find and only used instant, but my skin was stll a worsening mess, so I'm off kava (and missing it).

For experienced users who understand or have used Abilify, is it known to worsen side effects like dermopathy? Is there anything to do about it, or do I just have to . . . abstain as long as I'm on the Abilify?

 

[The Kap'n]

Can you let us know exactly what type of kava you're consuming?

 

[Melissa]

I've been taking (and LOVE) Moi Instant. I miss it!

 

[The Kap'n]

Alrighty, so kava and abilify are both metabolized by the liver enzymatic pathway, CYP2D6. What this means is that they'll both fight each other for being broken down and end up staying in your system longer. What this does is cause the dosage actually in your body to vary. It doesn't combine or create toxic substances, but it will stick around longer.

This actually explains the dermapothy as well, since the abilify is causing the kava to stay in your system longer than normal.

In regards to suggestions, if it were me, I'd ask myself how much dermapothy I could stand (Kava is my antidepressant)

 

[dr phalloid]

I love kava and have used it to varying degrees over the last two years, despite being on Cymbalta, wth only occasional breaks and typically only mild dermo. For me, the mix was not problematic, and the benefits outweighed any mild dermo.

All this changed pretty dramatically recently when I went through a really hard time and my psychiatrist needed to augment my antidepressant with Abilify. My depression lifted, but I still wanted to take moderate amounts of kava for anxiety, in part to avoid benzos. Suddenly, though, I was getting really BAD dermo (looked like exfoliative dermatitis all over) even with the highest quality instant kava. I don't think it's the kava, but rather something about the mix, because I never experienced dermo like this before. I tried every lotion I could find and only used instant, but my skin was stll a worsening mess, so I'm off kava (and missing it).

For experienced users who understand or have used Abilify, is it known to worsen side effects like dermopathy? Is there anything to do about it, or do I just have to . . . abstain as long as I'm on the Abilify?

hi there,i ve been prescribed abilify for 6 years and the only time I took any was when I had a bad episode and they didant seem to do anything.so I don't take them,i don't where you live but in uk you go into hospital to have your heart lungs-kidneys-liver and god knows what else tested before they allow this drug in your body-cant be a good sign.anyway 1 month ago they upped my dose from 10mg twice daily-to 30mg once a day.well ilost my sister to cancer 3 weeks ago and last week it all got to much so I popped a 30mg pill.well what happened next was terriyfying,i l startedto feel seriously unwell and had heart pains was clammy which heightened my anxiety into panic mode.i was convinced I was about to have a heartattack I could do nothing so went to bed very early and awaited the outcome.next I awoke full or the joys of life that I had survived,i immediately threw those pills in the bin and will never take them again.im no doctor but they are dangerous things.as was posted kava is the antidepressant and a bloody safe one.i personally don't mix any pharma meds with any plant or herb,its just not safe.as I said I'm not a doctor all I can do is tell you my experience.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

Abilify is a neuroleptic or atypical anti-psychotic. I too take Cymbalta and have for years. I tried augmenting with neuroleptics such as Seroquel, Risperdal and Abilify and they threw me into a sub-psychotic rage at work and I burned a few bridges. Cymbalta + exercise worked better, FWIW.

I have zero trouble with Cymbalta + kava. As for Abilify, I have no direct experience mixing kava into that. @verticity makes some cogent points regarding it though.

Good luck. Dermo is a bitch. I've never had it bad, but at one point developed an itchy lower eyelid when I was drinking a lot of micro.

Maybe traditional prep would give you less trouble. Chris' instant is solid stuff, but I've never had any dermo issues with traditional prep.

 

[Melissa]

Thanks, this is all so helpful. I understand it better now and think I may experiment to see if traditional prep helps at all.

One of my troubles is I'm really bad at all the squeezing needed for traditional prep. Has anyone tried the Aluball? Are there any distinctive advantages to using Aluball vs. a regular tea ball for preparation?

 

[blindy107]

The aluball isn't bad but I usually need to make three batches with it for total contentment. I've found using warm water half filled for shaking seems to release more of the goods. Then I just add ice and let it chill a while. The aluball is probably a little sturdier for vigorous shaking vs tea ball.

I too have only ever had dermo from micronized kavas. Traditional prep is my staple with some micro or instant on occasions when I'm rushing around.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

If your trying to avoid dermo... then the aluball is not only perfect for you... but also essential that you don't use a regular tea ball lmao!... that will let so much sediment through you'll be feeling like you have sunburn haha ... I really hate how they compound antidepressants wit antipsychotic meds... usually cuz the wd from antipsychotic meds is you guessed it psychosis ... regardless of your mental state before them.
But ultimately if you time them right it should avoid buildup ... that's prolly impossible to orchestrate tho...

 

[Steve Mariotti]

Thanks, this is all so helpful. I understand it better now and think I may experiment to see if traditional prep helps at all.

One of my troubles is I'm really bad at all the squeezing needed for traditional prep. Has anyone tried the Aluball? Are there any distinctive advantages to using Aluball vs. a regular tea ball for preparation?

Best results from no shortcuts: buy a nut milk bag like the ones Cactus Kava gives out for free. $10-$15 on Amazon, it'll last forever, and it makes it easy. There's no art to prep, just squishing, squeezing and wringing. Think of it as a forearm crossfit routine. Give it 10 minutes of concerted effort and you'll be happy with the results.

 

[Plantacious]

i don't where you live but in uk you go into hospital to have your heart lungs-kidneys-liver and god knows what else tested before they allow this drug in your body-cant be a good sign.anyway

I havn't heard of these tests needing to be done in the US, to take this med. Is it really THAT dangerous ?
This is disturbing to read, for someone who has been prescribed Abilify

 

[Yogini]

I havn't heard of these tests needing to be done in the US, to take this med. Is it really THAT dangerous ?
This is disturbing to read, for someone who has been prescribed Abilify

I honestly don't think the U.S. is anywhere near as stringent about these meds as European countries.

 

[Plantacious]

Alrighty, so kava and abilify are both metabolized by the liver enzymatic pathway, CYP2D6. What this means is that they'll both fight each other for being broken down and end up staying in your system longer. What this does is cause the dosage actually in your body to vary. It doesn't combine or create toxic substances, but it will stick around longer.

I appreciate your research and translation.
And since Abilify is a "brain medication", isn't there also a possibility that it can interact with Kava, in the brain chemistry, and not just in the liver activity ?

 

[Manuel Joao]

Are you sure it’s not the new medication you’re taking?