Kava and PTSD, anxiety, ADHD, depression

[kl.Elizabeth]

I'm studying to be an herbalist and am fairly anti-pharmaceuticals.  I do believe there is a place for pharmaceuticals, but not if herbs work.  I've read quite a bit about kava and in placebo controlled, double blind studies, it's been found to be equally effective as prescription anti-anxiety meds. 
For myself, I've noticed that kava is the best anti-anxiety substance that I have ever tried.  For me, it works better than benzodiazepines.  I'm wondering what other people's experiences are.   And, has anyone tried it for depression or ADHD?  Kava is a mild anti-depressant, but I wonder how it compares to prescription drugs.  I can read all my textbooks, but the true test is always how it works on people in real life.
And, lastly, has anyone here given it to children?  I know some people are going to be horrified that I even asked that question, but I mean instead of ADHD drugs.  For children, I think kava is much, much safer than the ADHD drugs.  And, I'm not suggesting to give children enough to get krunked, just a small amount.

 

[Vekta]

I wouldn't try to pass kava off as a better medication for depression. I think one of those studies was done at Duke University but I still wouldn't push it in that direction on purpose. I use it for social anxiety and I don't think that's at all the same as depression. Depression is a whole different animal. There are varying degrees of depression and it may or may not be due to a chemical imbalance. I think those of us that have tried many different varieties of kava know that they can effect us quite differently. Prescription drugs are scary but in certain situations might be more accurate in what neurotransmitters they effect.



Yes, I do believe if people tried kava before prescription drugs there would be less people on prescriptions. But in my opinion I think intentionally pushing kava as a treatment for depression is asking the FDA or some other governing body to grab kava by the neck and shake it like a rag doll more than it already has since the 1990's.



It can be used to treat depression but I think there is a certain kind of tact needed when presenting it as an option.

 

[kl.Elizabeth]

I agree with you about depression.  There are better herbs for depression and there is medicine, too.  I think depression is serious and should be treated by a professional.  I think kava is great for anxiety.  I wouldn't push kava for depression, but it is a mild anti-depression and I guess I was wondering if anyone actually found it helpful for depression.  If someone is suffering from depression, they should get help and not just assume kava would work.  The only thing I would recommend kava for is anxiety and possibly ADHD.  
Vekta, I'm glad you pointed it out that there are varying degrees and different types of depression.  I wouldn't want anyone to read this and think they can self treat depression with kava.  And, like I said, even if one wants a natural treatment, herbalists don't recommend kava, they have other herbs they use for depression.

 

[kl.Elizabeth]

You are also right about depression and anxiety being very different things, with different treatments.
Does kava take away your social anxiety completely?  Have you ever tried medicine?  I've been surprised how well it works for anxiety for me and I'm curious about other people.

 

[Vekta]

No, not completely. But it's nowhere near as sever as it was before. When I get an anxiety attack I don't shut down and withdraw anymore. I can still function in a public or group setting and not give in to the urge to shut myself off from everyone. I don't even think they could be called "anxiety attacks" anymore they've been reduced so much by kava. I still get that feeling once in a while that something is not right but it's more like a minor annoyance than an actual attack.

I've intentionally put myself in a situation a couple times that would have for sure been a huge problem before just to see if it would still bother me. I was totally fine. Maybe felt a little weird for doing it but other than completely fine.

I haven't tried any prescription drugs. I didn't have medical insurance that would cover it at the time so I started using Kava. I have some coverage now but kava works and I see no reason to get a prescription now.

 

[kl.r3mote]

allegedly in europe, kava extract is sometimes prescribed for children.



kava takes my social anxiety away. and i've tried every benzo (which i really advise against, they are counterproductive in reducing anxiety, they actually exacerbate it. the only beneficial use for benzodiazepenes is helping insomniacs to sleep. since the 80s, roche and the other pharmaceutical companies have spend billions a year pushing these literally life-threatening (not only to the user but to those around) benzodiazepenes to psychiatrists and other doctors.), a few ssris and pretty much every illicit psychoactive chemical known to man.



they are all garbage compared to this plant. there is negative feedback* with most all psychoactive chemicals, but with kava, there is no balance to achieve, so there's no negative feedback.

*in laymans terms - undesirable side effects (hangovers, etc) - characteristic of chemicals that have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the head - which is what most americans believe all drugs to be. but i digress.

 

[kl.Dreading]

@r3mote and Vekta - have you noticed improvement in social/anxiety when you haven't taken kava recently? I mean, is there a lasting and ongoing beneficial effect?

 

[Vekta]

@r3mote and Vekta - have you noticed improvement in social/anxiety when you haven't taken kava recently? I mean, is there a lasting and ongoing beneficial effect?

For me I'll be fine for up to 5 day if I'm lucky then I'll slowly start to slip back to the way I was before until *snap* something happens. If I'm just staying home there isn't much that can mess with me. If I go to a public place without having any kava recently I can really feel it. 2 days in public I can deal with it with some discomfort, 3 days I'll have a little trouble, day #4 I might as well stay home unless I really have to go somewhere. Not fun.

 

[kl.r3mote]

"2 days in public I can deal with it with some discomfort, 3 days I'll have a little trouble, "



likewise. when i take a break from kava, it's about the third day that i'm no longer inclined to act extraverted.
*edit: with kava, as far as long term effects go,  it has renewed focus on my goals, and my focus on what i want to do with my life has increased.
so it's my amateur psychiatric opinion that kava has lowered my fears and anxiety about failing at doing whatever i'm doing, from not only the micro level (every day small anxieties - short term) but the macro level as well (goals, dreams, even yearly or monthly ones - long term). which is awesome, cause i was aimless for longer than i care to admit.

if someone makes an effort to drink kava every third night or so, most of the negative side effects are reduced and, i find it's affordable at that rate.

 

[kl.Synaptik]

This is great info, thanks everyone.  It's very interesting to hear about the days-long after effects kava has on social anxiety.  This gives me so much hope!  In the next weeks when I receive my kava and give it a chance to permeate my body and mind I will definitely add my experiences to this thread.Kavalounge is turning into a great SA support group for me (smiley: wink)

 

[kl.alohasteve]

I've already posted in another threat about my experience with kava and social anxiety. I originally started drinking kava to help with insomnia and stress, but was very surprised at how effective it was at relieving social anxiety. I don't understand why this isn't discussed more by kava sellers.

 

[kl.musttobewinnar]

when you guys are talking about social anxiety what exactly are the symptoms that kava is alleviating for you guys? i only ask because i am a very not social person myself. i dont really like to make eye contact with people. i get very irritated when people invade my space uninvited. like if i'm playing pool, just practicing by myself and people want to play me... often i get very irritated since they dont really ask they just plop their money down or whatever. actually in general i really dont much care for people. i often feel like like i am not a member of the human race. and i really dont like it when people stare at me. that causes me to imagine all sorts of bad things happening to the person. luckily i can control myself. is this the sort of stuff u guys are talking about that kava helps relieve? that would be awesome if it is.

 

[starsofclay]

I don't really have those symptom's so i'm not sure if i could give much advice,



but kava would most likely immediately relieve those problems if you took it in a little thermos with you and drank it in public then yeah. Kava doesn't really last too long, so i wouldn't say drink it hours before you go into public and expect for there to be a great help. But in a sense its like alcohol- you have to keep an intake of alcohol or otherwise the effects go away.



I think kava over time has the ability to start sticking with you longer, as in i can usually feel much more positive and relaxed the next day if i drank a good amount of kava the night before. (good amount only means 4 or 5 shells, which in my opinion makes kava very cost efficient) The drowsiness isn't there any more but that peacefulness and sense of well being and contentment still is there. I think that is why alot of people use it as an alternative to harmful, chemical antidepressants.

 

[kl.Buckeye.dropout50394]

hey musttobewinnar.  I have felt much the same way for most of my life.  While I don't want to deny my natural propensity for time alone, part of why I like Kava is it does seem to make me want to be around people, easing social tension.  It makes me a little chatty as well.  Generally helps me enjoy the company of others in the present moment, relieving self-consciousness and "trying to think of what to say."

I think our culture is fragmented and isolated compared to indigenous cultures, which we all came from not long ago.  Tribes are cohesive, closer together than most families in America; music, ceremonies, and celebration all the time.  So, though I have had anti social attitude much of my life, I think it has more to do with the culture I was brought up, than with my personality.

Tongan Pride is my medicine in this regard.  The Kavasseur was spot on when he said "It really makes you want to be around people."

 

[kl.alohasteve]

For me, social anxiety is more of an aversion to working or socializing with large groups of people that I am not familiar with. It usually causes my chest to tighten, palms sweat, hands begin to shake a little, hard to make eye contact, etc. Basically the types of things that makes people describe you as shy. Sometimes it can make you have aggressive or bad thoughts because it triggers the "fight or flight" mechanism in your brain in reaction to the stress. There's some good books out there that describe the symptoms on Amazon or at the library.



Alcohol alleviates these symptoms, but with obvious side effects that don't make it practical for use at work. For me, kava doesn't make chatty but more relaxed and comfortable around people. I'm actually less talkative, but that's only because I'm not stressed out and saying stuff out of nervousness. So not sure if what you're describing is social anxiety, but it's helped me to get along better in social situations.

 

[kl.musttobewinnar]

ok, cool. well, when i get paid on thursday i'm going to order some tongan pride from KBR. my main goal is to relieve stress induced failure when i'm playing pool but if it makes me want to be around people that will be pretty huge. sounds like this is just the stuff i need. thx for the info and i'll keep u guys posted on my experience.

Oh, i thought i had read on this site that the effects of this stuff lasted like 6 hours... is this not the case? i was sort of envisioning drinking the kava, going to play and it lasting until the end of the tourney (just small 32 person tourney that last like 5-6 hours).

 

[kl.Buckeye.dropout50394]

Hey Steve, alcohol has been my medicine at times.  With side effects I agree.  numbs the nerves a little, numbs the senses. While Kava seems to make one more sensitive. To lights, sounds, other peoples feelings.  They both seem to bring about a sense of camaraderie.  One type feels like more of an authentic connection, while the other a less meaningful.   In response to your question musttobewinnar, I think the strains that are high in Kavain will make one more talkative, calm the nerves somewhat(though it has a stimulating effect on the brain), and desire the company of others.   while the dhm, and dhk, calms the nerves much more, helping with sleep, but I think is responsible for the sensitivity to light and noise, with perhaps less talkability.  The Kavain is quick acting and quick to leave.  DHK is quick acting and quick to leave.  DHM is slow acting and slow to leave.  For a sports game like pool I would look into strains high in DHK for performance, such as fijian.  The DHM would be best at calming the nerves and muscles, for that perfect shot.   Keep us posted!

 

[kl.radiantmaniac]

As somebody who suffers from PTSD I can tell you that Kava Kava is superior to any pharmaceutical out there

 

[kl.radiantmaniac]

Kava has greatly reduced my anxiety. Now that the anxiety has 90% gone I notice that I have mild depression. Before Kava I was so severely anxious that even if there was an underlying depression I would not have noticed it. Now i've calmed down, I realise I am slightly depressed. However the mild depression is much, much easier to cope with than the horrific anxiety I had prior to using Kava.

 

[Calvincs]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19430766