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Kava Extract (Using Alcohol?)

TrevC

Kava Curious
Most herbal extracts I've seen use some type of alcohol (cheap Vodka, etc.) in the extraction. Valerian, Poppy Seed, etc.
But a local clinic is selling this Kava extract that uses alcohol. From the get-go, I was told Kava and alcohol do NOT mix, due to liver concerns.
I'm attaching a picture of the bottle's label.

I spoke with the Dr. there about this and she says she has seen no elevated liver enzymes in her patients, and that the original Kava liver study was poorly done.

I had thought of trying this, as it's something we have here locally, but wanted to check with you guys first.
Is this safe? I would like to have it on-hand for "in a pinch" situations, not for daily use.
For daily use, I do traditional prep of medium grind dried Kava root.
 

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Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
Most herbal extracts I've seen use some type of alcohol (cheap Vodka, etc.) in the extraction. Valerian, Poppy Seed, etc.
But a local clinic is selling this Kava extract that uses alcohol. From the get-go, I was told Kava and alcohol do NOT mix, due to liver concerns.
I'm attaching a picture of the bottle's label.

I spoke with the Dr. there about this and she says she has seen no elevated liver enzymes in her patients, and that the original Kava liver study was poorly done.

I had thought of trying this, as it's something we have here locally, but wanted to check with you guys first.
Is this safe? I would like to have it on-hand for "in a pinch" situations, not for daily use.
For daily use, I do traditional prep of medium grind dried Kava root.
I think you're on the correct path. For daily use, no, I wouldn't use it. For occasional usage it likely wont cause any issues. The amount of alcohol you're consuming is on the order of 1-3ml and that's not even at 100% concentration. I think the collective wisdom about mixing alcohol and kava comes down to negative interactions, and not necessarily liver injury. It's more so related to the hives, blotches and redness that occur when one consumes kava and drinking alcohol (enough alcohol to feel) too closely together.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
Oh wow...
Nevermind. Look at this mess right here:
https://store.thewellnessway.com/kava-liquid-herb

THIS is what convinced me these folks are (apparently) loony:
https://thewellnessway.com/infosheets/kava.pdf

"Kava root and kava leaves contain different elements and have different effects on the system. Kava root is what is commonly refered to as kava, while supplements from the leaves are known as kratom."


I can scarce believe someone would even WRITE that. Let alone, a "wellness" company.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
Kapmcrunk: Thank you! I was typing my reply as you posted yours.
I do appreciate that additional info. I'm almost still curious to try it, because the doctor tells me it is "potent".
But seeing the company that sells the product call Kava leaves "Kratom" really leaves me feeling super not-confident in them.
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
Oh wow...
Nevermind. Look at this mess right here:
https://store.thewellnessway.com/kava-liquid-herb

THIS is what convinced me these folks are (apparently) loony:
https://thewellnessway.com/infosheets/kava.pdf

"Kava root and kava leaves contain different elements and have different effects on the system. Kava root is what is commonly refered to as kava, while supplements from the leaves are known as kratom."


I can scarce believe someone would even WRITE that. Let alone, a "wellness" company.
Good God.
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
Kapmcrunk: Thank you! I was typing my reply as you posted yours.
I do appreciate that additional info. I'm almost still curious to try it, because the doctor tells me it is "potent".
But seeing the company that sells the product call Kava leaves "Kratom" really leaves me feeling super not-confident in them.
Yep. I 100% agree. Stay as far away from that company as possible. That's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I've sent (via the contact form on thier site) a message about that line. It's pretty easy to see why people get the two confused when vendors make accidents like that.
 
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TrevC

Kava Curious
Yep. I 100% agree. Stay as far away from that company as possible. That's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I've sent (via the contact form on thier site) a message about that line. It's pretty easy to see why people get the two confused when vendors make accidents like that.
Thank you, sir! I actually sent a screenshot of that link to the local doctor who sells this, and was about to contact the company directly when I saw your reply.
Very good of you!
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
Yep. I 100% agree. Stay as far away from that company as possible. That's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I've sent (via the contact form on thier site) a message about that line. It's pretty easy to see why people get the two confused when vendors make accidents like that.
That web site and product is like a perfect storm of how not to sell kava: The suggested serving size would contain miniscule amounts of both kavalactones and alcohol, but in a large bottle of essentially hard liquor... plus conflating it with the other K and dubious and illegal health claims such as "Promote wound healing... aid in combating breast cancer"
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
That web site and product is like a perfect storm of how not to sell kava: The suggested serving size would contain miniscule amounts of both kavalactones and alcohol, but in a large bottle of essentially hard liquor... plus conflating it with the other K and dubious and illegal health claims such as "Promote wound healing... aid in combating breast cancer"
wow, just saw that pdf. This screams someone who's jumped into the industry with no knowledge of how it actually works.
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
Got a response back. They seem quite interested in getting correct info up and getting the incorrect info off. It's funny, I just realized you can't even buy through their website. You have to get it through, I assume, one of their distributors that orders it for you.
 

fait

Position 5 Hard Support
If I could thumb-up this entire thread, I would. This was a good ride and read.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
The doctor who sells this Kava extract locally is also genuinely interested in finding out what the deal is with their site description. She knows it's wrong.
What gets me is... it's virtually impossible to get Kava anywhere around here. Except for THIS kooky product. LOL! :/

I'll stick to Amazon. In fact, I just got in my order of Loa Waka and Dua Na Bilo. :)
 

fait

Position 5 Hard Support
I personally think kava education is a good thing. More doctors should learn what it is and the proper way to consume it. Prescribing medication, recommending surgery, and advising therapy is all about weighing the benefits and risks. Kava's risks and benefits should be weighed like every other cure or management of the illness. Kava is great but it's not for everybody at a given time, and the more physicians understand that, we as a kava drinking collective can move forward.
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
Oh wow...
Nevermind. Look at this mess right here:
https://store.thewellnessway.com/kava-liquid-herb

THIS is what convinced me these folks are (apparently) loony:
https://thewellnessway.com/infosheets/kava.pdf

"Kava root and kava leaves contain different elements and have different effects on the system. Kava root is what is commonly refered to as kava, while supplements from the leaves are known as kratom."


I can scarce believe someone would even WRITE that. Let alone, a "wellness" company.
Yikes. I mean I know this forum can be a bit harsh and very persnickety on vendors when it comes to kava and testing but holy hell. This is the reason we need to continue to educate. Can you imagine running a business where you are selling a product that someone consumes - and you can't even get basic facts right?
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
Yikes. I mean I know this forum can be a bit harsh and very persnickety on vendors when it comes to kava and testing but holy hell. This is the reason we need to continue to educate. Can you imagine running a business where you are selling a product that someone consumes - and you can't even get basic facts right?
We're a tenacious bunch :)

The fact that this scenario has played out at all tells me the confounding of kava and krat is running as deep as ever. There was at least one person who seriously thought kratom came from the leaves of the kava bush. Education is a must. Issues like these make me wish I had the funds to just travel from bar to bar just to respectfully plead with them about proper education.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
I know this was a little while back, but I wanted to see if you guys had an explanation for why I would be getting better anxiolytic and uplift effects from the above extract vs. traditional Kava prep.

I'm a little shocked, actually. I don't take the suggested dose, but take 15mg. It definitely does something. Granted, I'm not a drinker, so the vodka used in extract might be coming into play. But still... 15mg?!? That doesn't seem like enough alcohol to do anything.
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain of Crunk
KavaForums Founder
I know this was a little while back, but I wanted to see if you guys had an explanation for why I would be getting better anxiolytic and uplift effects from the above extract vs. traditional Kava prep.

I'm a little shocked, actually. I don't take the suggested dose, but take 15mg. It definitely does something. Granted, I'm not a drinker, so the vodka used in extract might be coming into play. But still... 15mg?!? That doesn't seem like enough alcohol to do anything.
I assume you mean 15ml. That's about a little over a 1/3 of a shot. Remember this is about 10% stronger than vodka, so that 1/3 a shot may actually be doing something.
Other than that, I'd say maybe you are inclined to go for the heady kavas. Extracts tend to be pretty heady. The paradise extracts I had were bottled concentrated kava euphoria. Too bad they shut down.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
I assume you mean 15ml. That's about a little over a 1/3 of a shot. Remember this is about 10% stronger than vodka, so that 1/3 a shot may actually be doing something.
Other than that, I'd say maybe you are inclined to go for the heady kavas. Extracts tend to be pretty heady. The paradise extracts I had were bottled concentrated kava euphoria. Too bad they shut down.
Sorry! Good catch - I meant 15ml.
And I'm super intrigued about the Kava extracts now. I've tried plenty in pill form (and it boggles my mind to see like .250g in with a supplement... which usually also has a B-vitamin, 5htp, sometimes Kanna Extract, etc.) The pill ones did nothing noticeable. I've tried Kava Candy multiple times, and keep some on hand because my wife says they help her. But I can take 5 of those and feel nothing but a desire to drink more water than usual.

Kava lately (traditional prep) has been super disappointing. I thought I had a routine figured out, which I stuck to for a few weeks, but now it does nothing like it used to. I stopped a few days and resumed - same thing. It's odd.

If you can think of any other reputable Kava extracts, I'd be glad to give them a try!
Thanks, as always, for your help!
 

kavakarma

Kava Enthusiast
I have definitely had 15ml and/or 30ml, or ranges between 1 and 60ml of Kava extact in alcohol at 60%. The alcohol overpowers the experience, and I spend the rest of the day drowsy pining for a bottle of wine that I know I should avoid with all my heart. It's enough alcohol to kick the cravings in, and not enough Kava to say that it's potent Kava, not even at 30-60 servings. I've often said to myself the boozy aspect of it takes away the health benefits I'd be getting from a shell. I wish I could support alcohol extract of Kava in some way, by suggesting that a small amount has some kind of medicinal benefit to those who would prefer to have Kava in that way, and I don't support it. I only support traditional prep and finding ways to make it available to yourself in this circumstance.

Thank you everyone for dispelling misinformation and promoting accuracy.


Edit, for Kava extracts, Bula Kava House does an amazing job at their CO2 concentrate, I'd recomment that first, followed by Instant Kava, and then the lemon-honey concentrate from RoH. There is one from Amazon called "World's Strongest Noble Extract", and it is good if you are seeking extracts and limited to Amazon.
 

TrevC

Kava Curious
Thank you for the suggestions!
A couple days ago I received some DrinkRoot instant Kava powder (Connoisseur and Epicure blends) and have been trying them.
I understand this to be different than micronized. The directions specify a 2g serving size, and suggest no more than 4g total in a day, so I took it to be an indication of potency.

The first day I tried the 2g on an empty stomach, and didn't notice anything. The next day I tried 4g in one serving, followed later by another couple grams.
Again, no noticeable effects. So I prepared some Nambawan.
Disappointing, especially considering the price, but I'm sure it must work for some people out there, and I think the idea of it is pretty good.
 
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