Kava for Xanax addiction

[krunkedout]

The reason I bring this up is because one of my cousins who is going to be visiting Xmas day is addicted to Xanax. He was prescribed it when he was a wee one for anxiety about his parents divorce and has been on them for like 4 or 5 years (he is 18 now). So I was thinking I may use the short time window to Introduce him to kava. Like maybe whip up a batch of instant in front of him and when he asks about I explain it and casually say that people use it as a replacement for things like ambien, Xanax, and anti depressants and such. And the. Make him some but with double the amount (reverse tolerance). So has anyone here had any experience with kava and a Xanax problem? I really want to be able to help this guy but I don't know if kava will help settle his cravings. Any input or experience will be greatly appreciated from all you kavasseurs

 

[Vekta]

That's some risky business there.



One of my friends was on a prescription. I didn't outright give her kava. I explained to her what kava was when she asked about it the same as you plan to do. One thing lead to another and I gave her all the information I had about kava that she would need to make her own decision about it. The thing is they have to understand what this is and how it may or may not work for them. They have to make a conscious decision to try it for themselves and seek out the information beyond what you show and tell them. For some people it really isn't the right thing and they need to know that from the beginning.

 

[Prince Philip]

Reverse tolerance notwithstanding, do keep in mind that kava will potentiate barbiturate narcosis.  I wouldn't do a double-strength shell.  Maybe unlimited normal-strength shells.

Although I have never had the displeasure of being prescribed Xanax, I have experienced it's cousin Ativan and cousin Klonopin.  Compared to kava, they fuckin' suck.  I still blame Ativan for causing my adrenal dysfunction.

For presentation, I would recommend keeping it in the spirit of the Holiday Season.  Instead of selling it as a Xanax replacement, sell it as what it is - a wonderful Pacific Elixir that will transport you from the frozen dark depths of December to a tropical paradise where the concept of last-minute shopping gives way to Island Time.

Much of any experience with kava is the result of expectations.  Don't set the expectations of substitute Xanax.  Set the expectation of Numbing Island Happiness.

Depending on how one feels about Xanax, you can also upsell the mental clarity benefit.  Kava doesn't just relax one, it heightens the senses... to a point, and then one has heightened senses that no longer make sense.

 

[endwatcher]

I would like to clarify that there is a deifference between addiction and dependence.



Benzodiazapine users are usually dependent, and NOT addicted.

meaning that they started them for some sort of Anxiety issue, and then come to realize that they just cant stop. The withdraw is the WORST that there is.

They normaly dont feel drugged up, or anything like that, but they usually leaves them with reboound anxiety, as well as rebound insomnia. It will also DESTROY you any other way.

from Adrenal malfuntions "as the prince had said" to tics, to tremmors, muscle cramps/spasms, blurred vision, depression, jaw pains, etc..etc almost ANYTHING.

So they usually have to come of VERY SLOWLY!



XANAX users are usally prescribed Klonopin because of the variations of half life.

XANAX has a 4-5 hour 1/2 life, Klonopin has a 12 hour 1/2 life maining that when you take it 2x a day that when it builds up in your system that you can slowly begin to lower your amount "I mean SLOW!"

look up Ashton manual or go here http://www.benzodocs.com/ashtonmanual/bzcha03.shtml



Your cousin is most likely going through what is usually describes by XANAX users as "Benzo rollercoaster hell"

Because of the 1/2 life he is probably up and down...and never at a normal.





I go into this with greater detail because it is a SERIOUS subject!

Kava should be avoided at first.

He needs to switch to a Klonopin, or another longer life benzo, this is going to take him more then a year

 

[kl.NDG]

No it will not help with the cravings per se. Xanax being a benzo binds strongly to the bzd receptor (GABA-A) on the gaba complex which causes massive influx of chlorides which hyperpolarizes the cell. Kava has some action with respect to gaba but it is through calcium channel inhibition and prostagladin inhibition, without direct gaba-a binding you are shit out of luck.
That said switching from alprazolam to diazepam as another member mentioned would be helpful. Kava would help with withdrawal symptoms like anxiety etc. but seizure etc is a real issue with missed dosage and the potentiation of sedation is real, so smaller amounts as prince phillip mentioned are best here.
I would use kava at the end of a taper, use the ashton manuel for proper dosage titration. Also, pregabalin or gabapentin can further ease withdrawl. I would also be worried about cross tolerance, that is despite having minor gabaergic effects it could prolong withdrawal, I doubt it but based on the pharmacokinetics it's possible.
I've been through benzo withdrawal, quite hellish, having a panic attack from putting on underarm deodourant is fun.

 

[krunkedout]

Thanks for all the help guys. I guess what I'll do is just hopefully get the chance to expose him to kava, tell him what I know about it, and why I take it, offer him some and who knows maybe he will end up liking it the first time like I did. And also could you explain the calcium channel inhibition?

 

[kl.new2kava]

Benzo addiction really sucks. I was pretty high doses of various benzos for years. I had a really old school shrink that wore a bow tie and was all about benzos. Then he retired and I got a new age one, that was really just a nurse practitioner with a focus in psychiatry. She hated benzos and straight up cut me off and tried to replace it with a laundry list of new meds that really only make you gain weight and feel miserable. I gave up on doctors and moved a few years later and got a decent doctor and got them again then moved and my new doc again cut me off. Seeing how many times doctors have outright cut me off off relatively high doses without any pity, I avoid those doctors like the plaque. The way modern psychiatry is going this person may likely have the same thing happen to them. Their current doctor will move or retire or they'll move and the new doc will refuse those meds and give some useless anti-psychotics. Getting off benzos on your own is allot better than just getting cut off by a doctor.



I'm not sure about the kava idea. The kavalactones have so many various pharmacological actions and it is really difficult to assess interactions with drugs active at the central nervous system. Kava may prove a useful tool in weening off of them as a new anxiolytic, but those taking it hoping to substitute a potent GABA A agonist are going to be very disappointed. The fact that kavain is shown to have convulsive properties would make it beneficial for those discontinuing benzos as seizures are one of the most dangerous withdrawal effects and you would be shocked how indifferent doctors are to this concern.

 

[krunkedout]

I know kava could never replace a benzo but I just figure it may be of some help to this poor guy. And as for drug interactions between kava and Xanax, it's apparently safe. The reason I know this is because one of my friends was snorting Xanax rails and the. Proceeded to have a kava sesh. He said they did potentate each other somewhat, but not like how alcohol does

 

[Vekta]

I really hope your friend gets some help with that. Benzos are scary stuff. I'm glad I missed that train due to no medical insurance at the time. Hopefully he can come hang out around the forums when all that gets squared up. You see what I mean though about seeking information beyond what you're going to show and tell? It really sucks but it is what it is. My friend had to slowly come off what she was on before paying serious attention to kava but she eventually got there about a month and some change later. Let us know how it goes Krunked and good luck.

 

[krunkedout]

Quote removed due to privacy request

glad to hear it worked for you Deleted User! I love hearing about kava helping someone

 

[kl.loonboon1]

My first post was about using Kava to get off Xanax. (only about 1 month ago) I have been on Xanax for 4 years on and off or "take as needed" basis. Since Kava I haven't taken a Xanax pill for, well 1 month. The withdrawls of Xanax suck, but when Kava is there it takes all the withdrawl symptoms away for me.

 

[krunkedout]

Well just an update on what happened here. My cousin is, right now, un helpable. What I mean is, he is not a Xanax addict, he is a Xanax abuser. Along with many other substances including alcohol. He doesn't want to be helped because he likes popping pills, drinking and getting in fights. He is one of those people who like to brag about how much weed they smoke. I mean, I like weed as much as the next guy, but I never did it to be "cool". And I never bragged about it. It makes me sad because he is a nice guy, just so immature right now and has no respect for culture or drugs. I never even Introduced him to kava because I knew it would do no good because he doesn't want help.