Kava Health Questions

[PositiveVibes]

Hello all,

I grew up in an area with a very large Tongan population. I have used kava with them in the traditional manner and have a few questions I would like to bring up to all of you kava experts. I may come off as a bit of a worry wort but I figure it's better to be safe than sorry and if I have these questions someone else most likely will as well and can benefit by me asking them.

1. First off, when I consume kava, even if its the first time in months I get itchy all over my body. It's not super bad but it is definitely noticeable and uncomfortable. The itchiness is not accompanied by any rash, hives, red skin, or shortness of breath. Since the itchiness comes after only one use I assume that it is not derm. My question to you is whether or not this is normal or is something I should be worried about?

2. My second question is whether I should be worried that I have darker urine than normal after consuming kava? I assume it is due to dehydration but figured I'd ask anyways. Its darker yellow but not brown and it does not dilute with water as quickly as normal.

3. Sometimes after consuming kava I get a stomach pain on the right side of my abdomen just below my ribs. I have been told that the liver has no pain receptors and therefore it must be something else. However, I am a bit of a worry wort and figured I'd ask if anyone else has experienced this and if it is something I should be worried about?

4. My final question regards kava interactions. I take nigella sativa (black seed) oil daily and have read that it inhibits the CYP2D6 enzyme. I have also read the kavalactones are processed via the same enzyme. I have also read a theory that proposed to explain the cases of liver damage after consuming kava may have been naturally poor metabolizers of substances that are processed through the CYP2D6 enzyme. Is it safe to consume both nigella sativa oil and kava or does inhibiting the CPY2D6 enzyme make kava dangerous? Are there any other substances that have a negative interaction with kava, besides alcohol that is?

Thank you for taking to read my questions and hopefully answering them if you know the answers. I know I may be paranoid about the side effects especially since the most recent studies indicate that kava does not cause any serious side effects on the liver or the rest of the body. However, I tried searching for answers to these questions and couldn't find many. I believe it is always best to be as informed as possible and to share any knowledge that may help someone else, especially when it may affect someones health. Thanks again, I look forward to reading everyones responses.

Also if this should be posted in a different sub section of the forum please feel free to move it.

 

[ThePiper]

I am not an expert but i can attest to the pain in the right side as well. Do you have any history of gallbladder issues? That is the only thing that makes sense to me. I have noticed that the best noble kavas minimize this pain to the point where i dont find it troubling like i do with questionably noble varieties. Ghk moi, kumakua, and nene do not cause this pain, at least not very much for me. If you are concerned about your liver you could take q blood test and please share your results here to add to our portfolio of kava liver test results

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Kava and black seed are safe together in my experience. I used the combo alot during opiate withdrawls

 

[PositiveVibes]

I plan to get my liver tested after about a month of daily use. Already got a liver panel prior to starting and everything was good so I'll be able to directly track my levels with the only change being the addition of daily kava.

And my thoughts regarding enzymic inhibition would be that the liver damage concerns would be over the long term rather than the short term. May I ask how long you used nigella sativa oil and kava together? Since nigella sativa oil has so many health benefits I plan to take it indefinitely.

And finally, I am on my phone so I have been having trouble finding the rules. Is it okay to repost my initial post into the in depth section of the forum? My goal is to get the most responses as well as informed responses as possible. What do you guys think, would the in depth section have better results, and is reposting this there against the rules? Thank you in advance.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Absolutely no one will know for certain what the long term effects of this combination might or might not be.

Getting itchy and rashy every time you drink hava sounds like a sign that you have a natural allergy or intolerance to kava. There have been studies that show that pacific islanders have certain enzymes that help them process kava properly and that a certain percentage of other people are deficient in that enzyme...that could possibly make kava harder on you, or have more side effects.

I don't necessarily get darker urine from kava, but since it can make you pee a lot, if you try to pee after you've already gone several time, it will probably be darker by that point. It's always good to pay extra attention to hydrating everyday, if you're a regular kava drinker. You aren't the only person to mention dark urine however and I think it has been noted in studies of extremely heavy usage in island communties.

Hypothetically, the stomach pain could be caused by the kava, since you might be allergic, or possibly because of an interaction between other things you take alongside the kava. But, in general, this is not a common complaint about kava and most drinkers, even heavy ones, don't get it. Before assuming the worst, I would consider that kava is hard on the G.I tract and can cause serious gas/stuck gas/bloating.
If you talk to anyone who works in an ER, they'll tell you how many people come in thinking they're dying, but their abdominal pain was really just gas.

Are you in Salt Lake City ?

 

[PositiveVibes]

Ya the enzyme is the CYP2D6 that processes kavalactones and nigella sativa oil inhibits it. Thats why I was asking about this combination in particular, and whether or not that study had been expanded on or had any follow ups.

I get itchy but do not get a rash of any kind. And it is noticeable but not terribly so. It sounds similar to the light itchiness that those who get derm have. I was simply asking if any one else gets slightly itchy and whether or not it is common. If I was allergic than I assume that I would have a growing effect if I continue taking it daily and that has not been the case.

The urine and dehydration I can understand. I guess I could describe it as yellower and cloudier than normal. I googled jaundice dark urine and it is definitely not to that extent so thats a good sign.

The stomach issue has only happened a handful of times out of the 10s of times I've taken kava. I've read that it could potentially be a gallbladder issue, do you think that could be the case?

And no, I'm from East Palo Alto. My Tongan friends have told me that EPA has the highest concentration of Tongans outside of Tonga. Not sure if thats true but I could believe it for sure since I know so many Tongan families from the neighborhood.

 

[nosuni]

Hey man, I've never had any of these issues aside from the dark urine, and that only happens when I don't drink enough water. The enzymatic actions of kava aren't well understood, but I would stay away from the black seed oil just to be safe. If you're willing to be a human guinea pig, though, I'm very interested in the results of the liver screen.

 

[PositiveVibes]

Haha no thank you on that one. Thank you for the response. So you have never even got the slightest bit itchy at all? No rash or anything but maybe just like a small itch here and there?

I guess the slight itch is what is worrying me the most at this point.

 

[nosuni]

No, I've never gotten itchy or any signs of dermo from kava (aside from maybe some dry eyes when I wake up). I drink hawaiian kava 9/10 times. I've read that it has less of a chance of causing dermo than kava from other places, but I don't think there's any studies behind that. It might just be me. Kavasseur drinks a lot of kava and has never had dermo, as well.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I think kava urine can be cloudy because you pee out some of the kavalactone resins.

When I first started, I used to get a small itchy spot on my stomach, as if I was going to break out. I think I'm slightly intolerant to kava...at least dry kava. I don't get that itch anymore...and dermopathy is a different beast.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

In my humble opinion the rare abdominal pain is usually related to gas/bloating due to kava fibres.

"Abdominal pain and discomfort. Gas in the intestine causes pain for some people. When it collects on the left side of the colon, the pain can be confused with heart disease. When it collects on the right side of the colon, the pain may feel like the pain associated with gallstones or appendicitis."

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...sorders/gas_in_the_digestive_tract_85,p00369/

 

[PositiveVibes]

Thank you for the quick responses. So do you think if I continue to keep using moderate amounts this minor itchy will pass as yours did? I feel alot better already knowing that I am not alone in this annoying side effect.

 

[tonyd]

Haha no thank you on that one. Thank you for the response. So you have never even got the slightest bit itchy at all? No rash or anything but maybe just like a small itch here and there?

I guess the slight itch is what is worrying me the most at this point.

I get itchy at times without a rash or dermo. Happens with many different types of kava too. Sometimes when I take a few doses in a day the itchiness is more noticeable. Usually notice it mostly when going to bed.

 

[Tfin]

I will occasionally get the all over itchiness you describe. Same as you, no rash, no dry skin just a light irritation all over. I'll scratch it, then its gone from that location then it surfaces somewhere else. Doesn't happen all the time and hasn't really been a hindrance for me....more of a mild annoyance when it happens.