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Kavalactone particle / pore size

Marty-G

Kava Curious
With discussions aimed at the best balance micron filter size to use, it got me to thinking if anyone knows or has looked into the actual particle or pore size of the kavalactones themselves?

I've searched as much as I could but found nothing?

My aim is to use a woven steel mesh screen small enough to capture all residual fiber but still large enough to let the kavalactones pass through?

Once I know this info, I'll purchase the steel mesh filter, cut & rig it to my centrifugal juicer filter & pour my blended concoction down into the chute & capture the resultant liquid as it comes out.

Right now I'm using my juicer as is & while it works wonders & captures most of the fiber, it still lets a lot of residue through
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Kavalactones themselves are simply molecules.

1635356813396.png


Their size is in angstroms.


You'll want to focus more on average grind particulate size, and that is something that will have to come from testing out different medium grinds, as one vendor may have different grind sizes throughout their entire offerings.
 

Marty-G

Kava Curious
Kavalactones themselves are simply molecules.

View attachment 12252

Their size is in angstroms.


You'll want to focus more on average grind particulate size, and that is something that will have to come from testing out different medium grinds, as one vendor may have different grind sizes throughout their entire offerings.
When the kavalactones are extracted into water though does the type of grind make any difference?

After all my aim comes from the resultant liquid

The size of the dry grind is more a less a way to get out as much of the active constituents as possible from the dry grind (ex. finer grinds yeild more kavalactones per dry weight)
 

Kapmcrunk

The Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
When the kavalactones are extracted into water though does the type of grind make any difference?

After all my aim comes from the resultant liquid

The size of the dry grind is more a less a way to get out as much of the active constituents as possible from the dry grind (ex. finer grinds yeild more kavalactones per dry weight)
What's likely happening is that we're not really "extracting" anything. We're making an emulsion instead of an extraction. The kavalactones are bound up in the root fibers. The agitation phase frees smaller particles from the larger ones. The large particles are filtered out where the smaller ones pass through and carry kavalactones with them.

There are likely free kavalactones in solution as the starch can act as an emulsification agent, but the vast majority will be bound in root fibers that are suspended in the beverage.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
With discussions aimed at the best balance micron filter size to use, it got me to thinking if anyone knows or has looked into the actual particle or pore size of the kavalactones themselves?

I've searched as much as I could but found nothing?

My aim is to use a woven steel mesh screen small enough to capture all residual fiber but still large enough to let the kavalactones pass through?

Once I know this info, I'll purchase the steel mesh filter, cut & rig it to my centrifugal juicer filter & pour my blended concoction down into the chute & capture the resultant liquid as it comes out.

Right now I'm using my juicer as is & while it works wonders & captures most of the fiber, it still lets a lot of residue through
Bearing in mind the advice above the sweet spot is really the amount of sediment you can let through without getting too much nausea. I find 75 microns good for me but you may be able to tolerate 100 or even 150. You may also only really like 50 microns. You won't know until you try and as also mentioned above different grinds from different vendors will affect you differently. It's trial and error and to a degree compromise.
 

Jean

Kava Curious
Kava particles are mostly not digested in the gut and if to big cause digestive troubles. The principle is therefore to increase the contact between the solid (cellulose fibers) in which the kavalactones are stored with the surface of the gut to absorb the kavalactones in the blood. For the same total volume, having smaller particles increases the surface available for exchange. If your particles are spherical, if you decrease their radius by a factor 2, you need 8 particles of radius r/2 to have the same volume as a particle of radius r. At the same time, your 8 particles of radius r/2 have a total surface that is twice the surface of your particle of radius r.
 

Marty-G

Kava Curious
What's likely happening is that we're not really "extracting" anything. We're making an emulsion instead of an extraction. The kavalactones are bound up in the root fibers. The agitation phase frees smaller particles from the larger ones. The large particles are filtered out where the smaller ones pass through and carry kavalactones with them.

There are likely free kavalactones in solution as the starch can act as an emulsification agent, but the vast majority will be bound in root fibers that are suspended in the beverage.
I was using the word extract more as a generic term to identify the process of freeing up the kavalactones bound to the root.

Anyhow, my goal here is to filter out as much root fiber as possible while still allowing the active constituents to pass through my wire mesh screen.

I just don't know what the angstrom size is for each particular kavalactone.

For now I've ordered 200 stainless steel mesh which comes out to 74 microns. I'll use that & test it out but I'd like to go even smaller without sacrificing potency but I won't be able to do so until I know what the angstrom size is for kavalactones.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I was using the word extract more as a generic term to identify the process of freeing up the kavalactones bound to the root.

Anyhow, my goal here is to filter out as much root fiber as possible while still allowing the active constituents to pass through my wire mesh screen.

I just don't know what the angstrom size is for each particular kavalactone.

For now I've ordered 200 stainless steel mesh which comes out to 74 microns. I'll use that & test it out but I'd like to go even smaller without sacrificing potency but I won't be able to do so until I know what the angstrom size is for kavalactones.
Most of the kavalactones are inseperable from the root. If you were to filter out literally all of the sediment then you would have a weaker drink. Not because you'd have filtered out individual kavalactones but because you'd filtered out the sediment which is inseperably bound to the kavalactones. If your goal is to get a drink that contains very little or no sediment but that is still getting the most kavalactones out of the kava then you are looking at extracts or instant. If you want to get the most out of your medium grind while minimising nausea then you need to find your sweet spot and 75 microns (or 74) is a good place to start.
 

Marty-G

Kava Curious
Most of the kavalactones are inseperable from the root. If you were to filter out literally all of the sediment then you would have a weaker drink. Not because you'd have filtered out individual kavalactones but because you'd filtered out the sediment which is inseperably bound to the kavalactones. If your goal is to get a drink that contains very little or no sediment but that is still getting the most kavalactones out of the kava then you are looking at extracts or instant. If you want to get the most out of your medium grind while minimising nausea then you need to find your sweet spot and 75 microns (or 74) is a good place to start.
Thank-you.
I'll try 74 μm first & then possibly go with a tighter pore size for experimentation purposes to see how much potency is lost or if I'm truly satisfied by the results, I'll just stick with what I got
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Thank-you.
I'll try 74 μm first & then possibly go with a tighter pore size for experimentation purposes to see how much potency is lost or if I'm truly satisfied by the results, I'll just stick with what I got
Ok, let us know how you get on. I think as your experience with kava grows you might not stress all of these details quite so much... eventually the details of it matter a lot less and you will find yourself less concerned with optimal kl extraction, water to root ratios, shell timings, etc and you'll get more into the moment and just experience it as it comes.
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
I was using the word extract more as a generic term to identify the process of freeing up the kavalactones bound to the root.

Anyhow, my goal here is to filter out as much root fiber as possible while still allowing the active constituents to pass through my wire mesh screen.

I just don't know what the angstrom size is for each particular kavalactone.

For now I've ordered 200 stainless steel mesh which comes out to 74 microns. I'll use that & test it out but I'd like to go even smaller without sacrificing potency but I won't be able to do so until I know what the angstrom size is for kavalactones.
The mesh size you want typically falls between 70-100microns. As a daily drinker I tend towards the 70 micron mesh size as it helps keep the dry skin at bay but I have a range of mesh bags depending on my mood. 100 micron will make a stronger kava beverage. As the kap has pointed out there is not a lot of extraction (some and you can get more by using hot water, blender etc.) so the main method of ingesting is the root particles and let your stomach do the extraction. Since I think you are new I wouldn't stress about it too much. The filtering/extraction from a bag is secondary to getting good kava and having a near empty stomach to get effects. I prefer nylon bags as they are easy to clean and cheap. If you search amazon for nut milk bags or strainer bags you will find many options. Some vendors also sell bags.
 
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